Shipbucket

Semi-automatic Vickers/EPK twin 6" : This gun was designed by Navarchos and he told me that is based on BL 6" naval gun. This name is a mistake by me, will change (please edit your post, i will remove it now).

This ship was classified as "Heavy Cruiser", built in early to mid 1920's. They were the first real cruisers designed in HLK.

-So in 3,8,9,10 positions the QF 4 inch Mk XVI naval gun?
-What about twin quad 2-pdr in 2,6 positions and singles in 4,5 positions?
-In 10 position the gun is removed and the twin quad 0.5" are side mounted were the number is. Does you mean to move the "10" position behind the rear boats? Is there any position I could put two more quad 0.5"? At 6 position sides? or 8?
-For AA directors I will look to British AA ships. What about their position?

What do you want ?

A) A refit for a (now) second class CA, that you still want to use as a CA (but it needs better AA guns to survive in the Med)
(Keep 6'(7x1) and torpedoes(2x4 ?), 4' DP/HAA (4x2 in position 3,8), 2pdr AA(2x4 in position 5) and .5 guns where they will fit (4x4 bridge wings and side near rear rangefinder)

or
B) A total AA rebuild as a heavy AA escort for your battle fleet ? (CAA ?)
(lose everything but AA guns 5/4.7 and 2pdrs and .5 as many as you can fit, I guess 5x2 HAA (or a few more) + 4x4 2pdr + .5 ?)

A few comments IMO with your ship building in the 38/39 time period,

- You will find it hard to buy top quality guns and even more so directors (unless this is waved in your AU, and maybe you can build them/develop them yourself ?)

- 6' gun don't work for AA fire anyway and turrets will be hard to fit on your ship.(is it worth the cost of redoing them on an old hull unless you are limited by treaty's ?)

- You will want a heavy AA gun (with DP ability), So US 5/38, 5/25 GB 5.25, 4.7, 4.5 (or similar home or foreign design), If you still have the 6' main guns for surface fire (ie option A) then 4'/3.7'/3' might get you more barrels at less weight.

- You will want lighter AA guns as well, nothing better than the 40mm/60 (if you can get them) in decreasing order of power, GB 2pdr, 20mm, .5. (I don't think you will want to much for the time) Maybe 2pdr and .5 ? .5 replaced by 20mm and later 2pdr by 40mm/60 ?

- Do you want any float planes ?

- Directors are very complicated to make and very high tech (very expensive and supply is lacking), so I would go for 1 or 2 on centre line in prime positions high up for good arcs.

JSB

-I can say B choice, since she does not have barbettes for turrets. But I will retain the TT.

-So, she would have 4.7" and 4" DP plus 2-pdr and 0.5". These cruisers were second class anyway, because of newer designs. They did not designed for having float planes.

-These single 6" were reverse enginnered from Elli Class cruisers (1914) and were obsolete even in 1920's. The 40mm/60 was indeed very good, but RHN had them after 1942. But HLK did had lisence from Oerlikon 20mm so I can use it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oerlikon_20_mm_cannon, there are variants available from 1927).

-For directors I consider co-developed them with UK, since HLK had close cooperation with UK in mid-war period. This need some research though.

Hi my option B using GB weapons (made under license due to war expansion and maybe a bit better due to sharing design budgets, I would like powered elevation/loading for my 4.7"/50 (12 cm) QF Mark XI, and yes more than 50Deg elevation etc... so assume they are a smaller version of the 5.25"/50 (13.4 cm) QF Mark I style )

Very WIP

Swap the .5 for 20mm when you have them (and add as many as you have spare)

In no particular order ?
- I wouldn't bother mixing 4.7' and 4' (but you want the 4.7s to have a high elevation than the 40 on your mounts (mine are not much better you want 5.25"/50 (13.4 cm) QF Mark I style ? but they may weigh to much )

- Is that mid-war or interwar ? and does it need to be GB or can you fit twin USN 5/38s ?

JSB

Since your ship is running in an AU, the twin 4.5" (last on sheet) I put on to Novice's L class DD may well suit your CAA.



The 5.25 is off Vanguard with my overhead version.

the 4.7" twin, I have closed up the guns together compared to standard turret you have used. It is an AU turret with higher elevation.

The first 4.5" is off Rowdy36's CA with my overhead

Mid war as I said in the beginning 1938-1939, these ships unfortunately sunk during the war. After the War HLK received some ships from USN for free in early 1950's, so US guns appeared. From pre-ww2 RHN fleet few ships survived.

I approve this proposal. I like this 4.7" HE (High Elevation), since it is an AU gun we could say that it was based on 4.7 inch QF Mark IX (4.7"/45 cal), because this gun was alredy in service with RHN from 1934. I will add it to my AU guns.

Thanks a lot both JSB and krakatoa.

Note - the overhead you have used for the 2pd quad is actually my octuple overhead.

With a bit more thinking by me

How much are you willing to spend ? and how much production capability do you have ?

The above all works in a ideal world but you might have to just go for the 4' twins like the RN CLAA rebuilds C class style due to cost and turret shortages.

In that case just fit a twin 4' instead of each 6' + other AA guns near crane (so 9x2 4') + quad 2pdr (2 or 4 x 4) + light stuff.
I think this might be more realistic for a 2nd class old unit being rushed into the war......
Save the good turrets for your new build ships.

JSB

Sr Krakatoa just trying to find one quick ....

First ship commissioned in 1926, second in 1929 and they were in good shape. But compared with Nikiforos Fokas Class cruisers they were obsolete. Latter had twin 4"/quad 2-pdr/20mm AA pack, without quad 0.5". I will try however to do a version of these cruisers with the 4.7 HE.

Several other designs of 1939/1940 had those 4.7" HE, among them a Heavy Destroyer, but never built because of German Invasion. Only Crete and some islands remained free*, but shipbuilding facitlities were not available until freedom.

Military budget in HLK increased when Adolf Hitler raised in power, it was obvious that war is coming, but no one knew when. Fasist Italy was not quiet either, Turks were not considered trustworthy so HLK had to counter to its own resources and capabilities plus Britain and France. Since I use a funding system similar with Ancient Athens, money are available. Production capability is larger and more advanced than real Hellas, while economy of HLK was always better.

* I have in mind a scenario, but it is not ready yet to appear.

Some questions from Cold War era connected with present:

This launcher is from old AU SAM sheet, could be built? I consider use it on my Konon Mk3 hull to create a cheap AAW frigate for Black Sea Command. Could be cheaper from Mk22? Weight? Ships will be built is 1970's, any possible electronics pack to be effective?



From four ships built, two rebuilt to "Salamis Export" and given to Equador in 2010 and rest still serve as GP frigates, rebuilt to Cyrenia Standard.