Shipbucket

Following on with the Alternate Royal Navy ships, I have redrawn the L class DD's with twin 4.5" (80 degree elevation) in place of the twin 4.7" turrets that only had 50 degree elevation. The 4.5" turrets are turrets and get away from the loading problems the 4.7's had.

Other than the main armament change I have upgraded the lesser AA weaponry and HACS with the latest parts.



My apologies to Novice, I seem to be picking on your drawings for my creations lately.

Think nothing of it.
I'm glad you find the drawings good enough for you to modify as you will

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Thank you Kim for the crest

"Never fear to try on something new. Remember that the Titanic was built by professionals, and the Ark by an amateur"

Looks good. Probably what should have been done from the start, but there was always that issue with matching the 5in armed destroyers of other powers which kept the 4.7in around.
That said, the mounts on the L and M classes was probably among the better ones for the 4.7in.

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Hood's Worklist
English Electric Canberra FD
Interwar RN Capital Ships
Super-Darings
Never-Were British Aircraft

Why not use US 5" guns?

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"It is better to type nothing and be assumed an ass, than to type something and remove all doubt." - Me

First off, why would you want to?
The two sets of info are taken straight from Navweaps.

4.5"/50cal Range @ 45 degrees - 20,750 yards (18,970 m)
4.5"/50cal AA Ceiling @ 80 degrees - 41,000 feet (12,500 m)

5"/38cal Range @ 45 degrees - 17,392 yards (15,903 m)
5"/38cal AA Ceiling @ 80 degrees - 37,200 feet (11,887 m)

Once you fix the turret, loading arrangements, elevation, and fixed ammunition, the 4.5" gun/twin turret is as good as, if not better than the 5"/38 twins. When these ships started completing in 1939 there was no Lend-Lease or joint US-UK exchanges of information, the Royal Navy would have used their own systems.

When the M class ships were refitted to go to Turkey the 4.7" turrets were removed and replace with the twin 4.5" turrets as fitted to the Battle class. That is the same guns in a different turret with a faster loading system than the one I have designed for these ships.

The 5"/38 had two things going for it that in the end made it a good system that would last 30 years past WW2. 1. So many of them were produced by the end of WW2 that the US was selling them for 1/2 price or less to NATO countries (or anyone who wanted them), thousands of replacement barrels were available. 2. They had so many millions of shells stockpiled that they could guarantee supplies for many many years to come. Why did the US never replace the 5"/38's on the Iowas. Cost. Same as 1 & 2.

The US Navy started to look for a replacement for the 5"/38 as early as 1942 but would not have been able to get anything into production because of Roosevelts production order. The reason for that is that the Japanese 5" guns of the time fired further (21,000 yards) than the 5"/38. No Navy likes there ships being under the guns of the enemy without reply.

Jane's 1967-68 has the Turkish M class with 4.7s and the two photos look like they have 4.7 mounts. That may have been an error by Jane's of course. The 4.5 would have been a much more effective DP gun.

I found this in the forums some years ago.



From Wiki:
HMS Matchless was a M-class destroyer built during World War II. She served two commissions with the Royal Navy: from February 1942 to August 1944 and from August 1944 to April 1946. She was then held in reserve until August 1957 and eventually sold to the Turkish Navy, who renamed her TCG Kılıç Ali Paşa. She was struck from the Turkish Navy list and scrapped in 1971.

Hmm, I wonder if that isn't an AU version? Novice should be able to confirm. I didn't think any of the Ms were re-armed (I'll have to check this too!!).

_________________
Hood's Worklist
English Electric Canberra FD
Interwar RN Capital Ships
Super-Darings
Never-Were British Aircraft

This drawing is an AU design for the Grey Funnel thread on a possible post war Royal Navy.
In actual life the Turkish 'M' class (they had bought four ships) were never re-armed with the twin 4.5" guns, and retained the twin 4.7" guns.

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Thank you Kim for the crest

"Never fear to try on something new. Remember that the Titanic was built by professionals, and the Ark by an amateur"

TY for the information. Whatever turret they were armed with, they were among the handsomest and most effective destroyers the British built.