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denodon
Post subject: Re: ThiariaPosted: May 7th, 2014, 12:44 pm
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Very nice work indeed. The external torps are a nice touch that certainly add some variation. Any plans for K class style 'cruiser subs' later on?

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bezobrazov
Post subject: Re: ThiariaPosted: May 7th, 2014, 2:28 pm
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Absolutely amazing. I was enthralled just reading your ever-so realistic historical commentaries on each class!
This is a truly marvelous AU-thread - right up my alley with regards to credibility!

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Novice
Post subject: Re: ThiariaPosted: May 7th, 2014, 6:49 pm
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A real gem of a thread. These little subs, with their external torpedo tubes, are novel here at the Shipbucket, to say the least, and I love those.

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Hood
Post subject: Re: ThiariaPosted: May 10th, 2014, 9:28 am
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The most awesome AU submarines I have ever seen on SB. Again, totally believable vessels with a bit of flair and some ingenious touches.

I wonder if this previews some real-life early French subs?

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Garlicdesign
Post subject: Re: ThiariaPosted: May 11th, 2014, 7:13 pm
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Hello again!

Thanks for the praise. The drawings are actually rather old and based on some tiny reference drawings of french WWI subs from Navypedia, with the underwater hulls improvised by me. I have refs for the Curie, but thats it, unfortunately. If anyone has more - dump it on me!

Next some Thiarian WWI era destroyers (all of them in fact).

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KHT
Post subject: Re: ThiariaPosted: May 11th, 2014, 8:48 pm
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Looking forward to it! :D


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eltf177
Post subject: Re: ThiariaPosted: August 11th, 2014, 10:43 am
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Anything new on the horizon? :?:


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Garlicdesign
Post subject: Re: ThiariaPosted: October 21st, 2014, 7:32 am
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Hello again!

Thiarian destroyers and torpedo boats - Part 1: 1893 - 1908

1. Torpedo boats

1.1. Seangan-Class
By 1890, Thiaria possessed a ragtag force of third-class torpedo boats, mostly wooden and armed with spar torpedoes, but no experience at all in the design of seagoing torpedo craft. The first foreign types with sufficient size to be halfway useful in the South Atlantic did not appear until the mid-nineties; to speed things up, the Thiarians bought them off the shelf. Their first - and only - seagoing torpedo boat class was based on the French Forban-class. They were armed with three swiveling 381mm TTs - quite a heavy punch for their size - and two 37mm revolvers, one on each side. If the skipper felt suicidal, a spar torpedo could be fitted, but this option was not exercised in service. Three largely identical batches of 4, 4 and 8 boats were ordered in 1896, 1898 and 1900. All except the last four were built in France. All were named for insects: Seangan (Ant), Beach (Bee), Foiche (Wasp), Cearnabhan (Hornet), Damhan (Spider), Creithleog (Horsefly), Daolpog (Stag Beetle), Dreancoid (Flea), Corrmhiol (Gnat), Snathaid (Dragonfly), Muiscit (Mosquito), Tarantula (Tarantula), Bumbog (Bumblebee), Ciogar (Cricket), Dreoilin (Grasshopper) and Maintis (Mantis). Although they were rated as robust and reliable vessels, these tiny craft fared not very well under South Atlantic weather conditions. Twelve of them accompanied the fleet in the war of 1908, but failed to approach close enough to the enemy fleet to bring their obsolete 381mm torpedoes to bear. Daolpog foundered in heavy weather on the return leg. They were rebuilt to costal minesweepers between 1911 and 1913 and served in this capacity during the first world war. Apart from two which were lost in accidents (Dreancoid had to be scrapped after a boiler explosion in 1915 and Maintis was blown up while clearing a friendly minefield shortly after the armistice), all survived the war; they were used as tenders and training vessels till the mid-twenties, then scrapped.
[ img ]

2. Torpedo gunboats

2.1. Iaguar-Class
Thiaria followed the trend towards the torpedo gunboat late, when it was nearly over. They ordered two at FCM in France to a design specifically prepared for Thiarian requirements by downscaling a third-class cruiser design also prepared by FCM (Contuirt-Class). They turned out sufficiently satisfying that the French Navy adopted the design as the Cassini-Class, despite being armed with an unlikely assortment of 14 guns of 4 different calibers and no less than six fixed 381mm torpedo tubes firing athwartships. Unlike their French clones, the Thiarian ships were unarmored, hence the designation as torpedo gunboats despite their size which was big enough to label them third class cruisers; the Cassinis had lightly armoured decks rather high in their hulls which added too much topweight and made them roll rambunctiously. The Thiarian vessels, which displayed much better seakeeping abilities, were named Iaguar and Puma (no translation required there) and came too late for the war of 1894, but actively served in the 1908 war against Brazil. They accompanied the main fleet during the battle of Tranacorr as flagships of the torpedo boat flotillas, but scored no significant hits; Puma was damaged by Brazilian gunfire, but not severely. After the war, they were relegated to secondary duties and served as minelayers during the first world war; their armament was changed to 1 - 100mm and 5 - 65mm in 1910. In 1914, they received a new bridge forward; from 1916, up to four 8mm MGs were mounted on top of the old bridge structure, of which only a skeleton remained. In the early twenties, they were completely spent and scrapped in 1921 and 1924, respectively.
[ img ]

2.2. Crogall-Class
These ships were flat copies of the Iaguar-class built by Thiarian shipyards, differing from the French originals by landing the six 47mm guns and replacing them with two additional 65mm guns. They were named Crogall (Crocodile) and Ailegeadar (Alligator). They took very long to complete - 1895 through 1900, ridiculously long for ships of this size - but were thoroughly finished and reliable ships. They missed the Battle of Tranacorr in 1908 due to an assignment to trade disruption duties, and like their sisters were used as minelayers during the first world war. Modifications were nearly identical, and the four ships were very hard to tell apart. After the war, both were hulked and used for mine and torpedo training, lasting another twelve years before being scrapped in 1931.
[ img ]

3. Destroyers

3.1. A-Class
Although able to build satisfying torpedo-boats domestically by 1900, the Thiarians decided to go the safe way and order their first destroyer class in France (one each at Dyle&Bacalan, Brosse&Fouché, Atlantique and Normand, but all identical to a Normand design). Like all following destroyer-classes, these ships were named for abstract qualities beginning with the same letter as the class designation. Their names were: Aibiuil (Alert), Aclai (Agile), Adhuil (Lucky) and Ardreimiuil (Brilliant). They were identical to the Framée-group of the french Durandal-class. The boats were delivered in 1902 and 1903 and served in the 1908 war, were Aclai was lost to a Brazilian mine. Although they made exhaustive use of their torpedoes, they achieved very little due to the short range of their 381mm torpedoes.
[ img ]

All had their armament changed to 2 - 65mm guns in 1908 immediately after the war, landing the useless 47mm pieces.
[ img ]

They were refit to minesweepers between 1912 and 1913 and served in this capacity during the first world war and some years after; Aibiuil was sunk by a Brazilian torpedo boat in 1917, the other two were scrapped in 1928.
[ img ]

3.2. B-Class
Based on the Claymore-group of the French Durandal-class, but slightly longer, fitted with four funnels instead of two and much improved 450mm torpedoes, this second class of Thiarian destroyers was ordered in 1904 and commissioned in 1906. Two were built at Normand's in France, two on Thiarian state yards. Their names were: Briomhar (Vigourous), Beomhar (Vivacious), Broduil (Proud) and Buan (Steadfast). They led the Thiarian fleet into the battle of Tranacorr and helped to keep the Brazilian torpedo flotillae away from the Thiarian fleet with their guns, although they scored no kills.
[ img ]

They had their armament changed in a similar fashion as the A-class in 1908/9.
[ img ]

After they had been left behind by progress, they were refitted to mine warfare craft in 1913 through 1915. They could alternately be used as minesweepers or minelayers, and their high speed (still 24 knots in 1916) enabled them to perform some daring offensive minelaying missions off the Brazilian coast during the first world war. Buan and Beomhar were lost during one of these missions when they were caught by two Brazilian destroyers and sunk by gunfire. The other two continued to serve as minesweepers till the mid-twenties and were scrapped in 1926/7.
[ img ]

3.3. C-Class
The first Thiarian destroyer class that was no flat copy of a french design, the C-class units had the same hulls as the B-class, but some significant improvements. They were beamier and heavier (380ts), had stronger machinery to compensate for the increased weight and beam and, most importantly, a single-caliber armament of four 65mm guns. The two 450mm torpedo tubes were re-arranged to improve fields of fire for the guns. Four were ordered in the 1906 estimates, and four more in the war emergency programme of October 1907. They were built with maximum haste, and the first group was completed just in time for the war against Brazil, although they all missed the battle of Tranacorr. The second group was completed late in 1908, just after the war was over. Their names were: Ceanndana (Headstrong), Ceimiuil (Impressive), Cailiuil (Illustrious), Ceanntrean (Obstinate), Croiuil (Cheerful), Croga (Intrepid), Calma (Courageous) and Cliste (Adroit).
[ img ]

The two last ones were experimentally fitted with a raised forecastle, which improved seakeeping, but made the ships quite bow-heavy.
[ img ]

They were the oldest Thiarian destroyers which served in this capacity during the first world war; all were assigned to the reserve squadron of four pre-dreadnought battleships, two armoured and four protected cruisers. After the main fleet was bloodied in the battle of Tristan da Cunha, the reserve squadron made several forays into the Atlantic to intercept British convoys, at first with some success; these sweeps made it painfully clear that the C's - even those with raised bows - were unsuitable for oceanic warfare. From late 1916, they only accompanied the fleet out of port and back in. By that time, all of the class were fitted with DC racks and an 8mm AAMG.
[ img ]
[ img ]

Despite their lack of activity, Croga was lost in an accident after being rammed by the old battleship Pobhlacht, and Ceimiuil was dispatched by the British submarine HMS G1. After an unfortunate and bloody encounter with HMS Warspite in 1917, the reserve squadron remained entirely inactive, but its destroyer detachment was employed as escorts. Cailiuil was the most successful: In December 1917, she and Cliste fought a savage gunnery action against HM Submarine K3 and got the better of her; late in 1918, she first waterbombed, then rammed the brand-new HM Submarine L6 which pursued the Thiarian fleet on its long escape after the Battle of Craigmiadh. The six surviving units continued to serve in training and supporting functions till the first generation of interwar destroyers was commissioned in the early 1930s; when the remaining C's were scrapped in 1931/2, they were little more than hulks.

3.4. D-Class

3.4.1. Batch 1
With this class, the Thiarians reverted to their usual practice of copying the newest French type. Although the 450-tonnes-class, the first of which were ordered in 1906, was an obsolete design for its day, the Thiarians were at war with Brazil when the type for the 1908 emergency estimates was chosen, and the Brazilians had recently ordered eight 550-ton River-class destroyers in Great Britain. Lacking alternatives, the Thiarians adopted an improved Spahi-class with the three forward 65mm guns replaced by a single 100mm on the forecastle. They were named Daingean (Resolute), Danartha (Fierce), Diail (Excellent) and Dilis (Steadfast). Despite all efforts, none of these ships was launched when the war against Brazil was over, and all were completed in 1909. In the first world war, they served alongside the C-class with the reserve squadron. Unlike the C's, they were seaworthy enough to take part in a few sweeps and score some successes against British convoys; between them, they accounted for five transports, the old destroyer HMS Dove and the small monitor M16 (en route to Brazil to be loaned to the Brazilian Navy). Diail and Dilis were lost, the former torpedoed by HM Submarine G7, the latter shot up by HMS Skirmisher in the last foray of the reserve squadron. They were the only Thiarian destroyers which never received AAMGs or ASW gear; refitting these ageing ships was low priority and postponed several times until the war was over and it was too late. The two survivors completed the Thiarian postwar destroyer training squadron and were scrapped in 1930 and 1932.
[ img ]

3.4.2. Batch 2
With the war against Brazil underway, the Thiarians sought for ways to quickly expand their destroyer fleet. As their domestic shipyards were largely busy, they ordered four standard Spahi-class ships to the original French specifications in France. They were named Dorrga (Grim), Dana (Daring), Domharaite (Immortal) and Dolba (Bold). All were delivered in 1909 after an average building time of 10 months, an all-time record for French-built ships. They were however of poor quality due to the haste of their construction; a few years after their completion, they were already leaking and good for no more than 24 knots. They were relegated to training duties in 1914 and emerged from the war unscathed in 1918, except Dana which foundered off Noyalo in 1917 for no discernible reason while lying at anchor. No major modifications were implemented. Unlike many older ships, they were considered useless after the war and scrapped forthwith.
[ img ]

3.4.3. Batch 3
Although the two modified C-class destroyers with raised forecastles were not yet finished, the third group of Spahi-analogues, begun at the same time as the second group, but on Thiarian domestic yards, received the same modification. Due to their larger size - they were beamier and had more draught as the earlier D-class ships and displaced 540 tons (almost as much as the British River-Class) topweight and increased sail area proved less of a problem as on the C-class, and they were generally regarded as very satisfactory. Their names were Dobhogta (Unyielding), Dobhriste (Untouchable), Dochloite (Indomitable) and Dochoisthe (Irresistible). During the first world war, they were assigned to the reserve fleet and took part in most of its forays till the disastrous encounter with HMS Warspite terminated these activities. Dobhriste finished off the crippled large cruiser HMS Powerful with two torpedoes and sank a Flower-class sloop with another one; Dochloite torpedoed and sunk the destroyer HMS Stour. None were lost.
[ img ]

All received DC racks, 8mm AAMGs and primitive hydrophones in 1917/8. In 1918, they landed the three remaining 65mm guns and received an additional 100mm aft. Although all four were in fair shape when the war ended, they were not demanded by the allies and remained in service with the Thiarian fleet. Although they were good for no more than 22-23 knots in the 1920s, they continued to serve as first-line destroyers alongside the M-class till enough newer ships were available in 1932. They were scrapped in 1933/35.
[ img ]

3.4.4. Batch 4
During the war against Brazil, considerable funding was made available for expanding the fleet; contrary to expectations, it was over after ten months, and the last four of the war emergency programme ships were not even begun. When the plans for another group of repeat Spahis were finalized in mid-1909, first experiences with the modified C-class were available, and it was decided to fit raised forecastles to them as well. More importantly, these ships, which were not needed too urgently after the war was over, were employed as testbeds for turbine propulsion. LT Dolubtha (Inflexible) was fitted with French Rateau-Turbines, LT Doshasta (Implacable) received Swiss Zoelly-Turbines, LT Doscriostha (Indestructible) had American Curtis-Turbines and LT Dothreaithe (Impregnable) received Swedish deLaval-Turbines. Only Doscriostha was considered fully satisfactory, leading to the adoption of Curtis-Turbines for most Thiarian warships in the following years; Dolubtha and Doshasta were unreliable and prone to breakdowns (Doshasta also was a fuel hog with less than half the range of her sisters), and Dothreaithe's machinery was practically unserviceable, so she had to be refitted with license-produced Curtis-Turbines in 1913 (after that, she was the best performer of her group). All belonged to the main fleet in the war, although their seakeeping was too limited compared with newer destroyers to be really able to operate efficiently with the fleet.
[ img ]

They were among the first Thiarian destroyers to receive DC racks, 8mm AAMGs and hydrophones; all except the early war loss Dolubtha also replaced the three aft 65mm guns with another 100mm. Dolubtha was lost in the battle of Tristan da Cunha, cut in half by a British 533mm torpedo from HMS Cockatrice, and Doshasta suffered the embarrassing fate of having to be scuttled after running out of fuel during the escape run after the battle of Craigmiadh. The other two survived the war. Their engines were in poor shape by then, and they were scrapped as soon as the M-class destroyers were completed in 1924/5.
[ img ]

To follow: Thiarian destroyers 1910 - 1918

Greetings
GD


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Hood
Post subject: Re: ThiariaPosted: October 21st, 2014, 7:46 am
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Magnificent work! Great to see this AU back in action.

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wb21
Post subject: Re: ThiariaPosted: October 21st, 2014, 8:42 am
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Superbly stellar work GD. [ img ]

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