Shipbucket

Random thoughts on modern (and past, perhaps future) naval combat, from me. Just a thread for thoughts that come to my head that I wouldn't mind sharing, or getting feedback on, or being told I'm an idiot

I've occasionally mulled over anti-ship and anti-air missiles, since I play a number of games that include them prominently (albeit not particularly realistically) such as Wargame: Red Dragon, or Aurora 4X. Is the line between anti-ship and anti-air missiles going to blur into nothingness in the future? Surely aside from carrier-killer missiles warhead size doesn't need to be extraordinarily large to be effective. RADARs, helicopter fuel, VLS magazines, there's no shortage of critical and delicate targets on a modern warship. Moreover, modern missiles can easily target down to the meter fully autonomously with onboard sensors and computers. Do you need more than a 10kg explosive warhead if you can put a missile through the bridge window or down the thermal exhaust port? Use the SM-2, Luke. Faster missiles also give shorter time for the enemy CIWS to react. Stealth missiles are well and good, but a golf ball or bird sized radar signature moving at several hundred kilometers per hour towards you is rather suspicious. Stealth isn't even mutually exclusive with speed (except thermal signature perhaps).

Anyways, the tl;dr of the rant is that I wonder whether "evolved standard missiles" will become the bread and butter of naval missiles in both anti-ship and anti-air roles.

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SM-2 is IIRC actually cleared for use as anti-ship missile. can't remember right now how it is for the other AA missiles but I know for certain sea dart could too. your musings are not new, and make sense.

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I know it's cleared for use as an anti-ship missile (Sunk an Iranian missile boat iirc) but my thought was...Why have Harpoon lying around? Wouldn't it be simpler, cheaper and more effective to standardize (heh)?

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Any semi active radar homing or command guided missile can be used against ground targets as long as there's line of sight from the firing ship.
The moment you go beyond the horizon you're going to need some sort of on board guidance.

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Source Materiel is always welcome.

Harpoon is an over the horizon fire and forget missile with waypoint capability. SM2 is command all the way or illuminator dependent and requires some sort of guidance.

I think you are being very optimistic regarding what a missile can discern regarding its target. Even today the most advanced missiles still see basically "large signature blob at range "x" and within coordinates "x", aim at center of blob, ignore smaller signature blobs, perform preselected terminal maneuver "y"."

The simple fact is that simple things like background clutter based on multiple targets of close in landmass still make ASM shots impossible. If you shoot a Harpoon at two target hulks a hundred hards apart is is just a likely to cruise in between them than to hit either because all it sees is "large signature blob "x""

That's why you have NSM and LRASM. Both can easily distinguish targets from clutter. See the following video on LRASM: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvHlW1h_0XQ

funny that they use russian ships... just show where US brains are at the moment. starting to wonder how is really starting all the nonsense in the world!


main difference between NSM and LRASM is that NSM is a non-VLS at the moment but a plug and play system. LRASM is an VLS version. so it's all about what need you have VLS or non VLS.


I bet there will come a VLS version of the NSM, since Kongsberg are developing a Submarine launched version of the NSM.

It doesn't actually seem to mention anywhere in that video why the missile magically bluffs it's way through point defenses. At a certain point even a heavily reduced RCS can be detected and classified as a threat due to speed and heading.
Wikipedia (bad source yes, but it's got a citation) claims the Standard 2 block 3 and later have an infrared seeker and can be fired over the horizon by inertial guidance, with infrared terminal homing.

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What the video doesn't show, because it is something these boys are not telling out loude, but I know NSM have and if NSM have it LRASM have it to. And it's called Jaming. it's jam it's target, and get only detected when it's inside visual range.


NSM ans LRASM have many sensors, they detect radar signals, communication.

I know the NSM have the capability to lure radar and evade getting locked on, not only by just evading but it also JAM any radars. while it's stealth, and I bet Kongsberg have programmed in to the computer so the computer maximize the usage of it's stealthy hull. And I bet LRASM is doing the same thing

That would make sense, thanks.

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Worklist:
FFG Halifax Redraw