Shipbucket

Preamble.

Alternate Universes depend on half a dozen calcultaions before you even look at your first ships. Does your new country exist on Earth as we know it or is your planet in a galaxy far, far away. If its far far away you can relatively do what you like as long as you have a credible timeline to support your creations.

If you use Earth to base your AU on then you need to alter either the way the Earth is by adding fictitious continents or island chains to provide a place for your new country or else you have to alter history to allow you to create a new country overlaid on what might have been there before, or alter history to change the type of ships that can be built.

Next is does your country have the resources to build its own ships. Do you use the placement of resources on the real life Earth or do you place a few extra resources to allow your country to be competitive. How big is your country and does it have colonies to support. The size and how rich your country is also will limit how big a navy it might be able to support.

Galicia.

Galicia as an entity has existed for hundreds of years. The original area was based on the capital city of Halych and was first mentioned in histories in 1206, though the city existed prior to that date. Since then Galicia has been incorporated in various Empires as they wax and wane accross Europe.

For this AU modern day Galicia is set up by the League of Nations at the end of WW1 as another buffer between the Communist Red hordes and the rest of Europe. The breakup of the Austro-Hungarian Empire provides about half the lands that become Galicia, while Roumania and Bulgaria are added for stability. There will always be tensions with neighbouring Empires who covet the lands and resources in Galicia. Tension with the USSR is guaranteed by Galicia having the area of Besarabia as part of its lands.

With the changing times to fuel oil powered turbines the jewel in the crown of Galicia is the oilfields at Ploesti. This guarantees the Galician Navy a fuel supply while also earning valuable overseas credits. One of the Galician Navies primary roles is the escorting of tankers out of the Black Sea.

Being a newly created entity the Galician Navy only had those ships that were available through the countries of Roumania and Bulgaria which was next to nothing compared to what they might face in the Black Sea from the Soviet Fleet. Knowing of this Galicia was gifted various ships surrendered by the Austro-Hungarian Navy.

The capital was made at Bucharest as all the civil structures were in place as opposed to the turmoil in the newly added lands of the Balkans and Hungary. This also made a great saving in the expenses of having to set up new civil structures in five countries instead of just one. (This is one of my bug bears for Europe 1920-21, the millions that had to be spent in setting up new government structures in the countries that were created by the end of WW1. Each of those new countries was put on the back foot financially right from their beginnings. The five countries that were joined to make up Galicia all carried Royal Houses and while the Government and King were based in Bucharest, the rest of the leading Royals were placed in Belgrade and encouraged to inter-marry to strengthen the ties of Galicia through its Royalty.




The Galician Navy had access to both the Black Sea and Adriatic seas (and the Mediterranean beyond) with major naval bases at Constanta on the Black Sea and Dubrovnik on the Adriatic coast. Building facilities for major warships were created at Constanta while facilities for building ships to cruiser size were created at Dubrovnik. The excellent builders of destroyers Danubius at Porto Re also fell into Galicia territory and provided much impetus into that category. The greatest loss to the new Galicia was the ceding to Italy of Trieste and the surrounding area which contained the Royal Dockyards of the Austro-Hungarian Navy that had built most of the ships that now populated the Galician Navy. This left Galicia without any major building shipyards and while the infrastructure was slowly being built up at Constanta it was only just ready to tackle capital ships when the new battlecruiser and two armoured cruisers were to be built in the mid to late 1930's. The major problem was with the guns foundry. Even with assistance from Vickers and Krupp, it was not till 1935 that the first large caliber guns (13.8") started to become available. Production of these weapons was slow and meant that the Slovenia class battleships took over 6 years to complete. In 1932 a new dual purpose gun of 125mm (4.9") size, based on the French semi-automatic loading system of 1930, entered service. This weapon became the standard battleship secondary armament and main armament of the destroyer type vessels. The gun was also retroactively fitted to the refurbished Capital Ships and cruisers.

With aspirations of Major Power status, one major debate for the Navy was wether a ship to carry wheeled aircraft should be sourced or not. All the other Major Powers were building or converting them, so why shouldn't the Galician Navy have one too. An old passenger liner that had been received as part of the Galician start up package was eventually earmarked for conversion.

The biggest problem facing the Navy was that each ship could have crew from any or all of the prior countries that now made up Galicia. All speaking 5-6 different languages. On the first census it was found that the most common second language spoken in Galicia was German. That language was made the lingua franca of Galicia and was to be taught in all schools accross Galicia. It took 10 years for this step to take effect and during those years the readiness and training levels of the Galician Navy ships was poor. Crew morale remained poor through to 1938 when the border disputes over Besarabia flared into conflict with the Galician forces prevailing. The Navy did well defeating the Soviet Black Sea Fleet in their major clash when the Galicia and its escorts beat up on a Gangut class battleship which was covering landings on the Besarabian coast. The Gangut ran and made it back into Soviet waters in a crippled condition and faced two years in dock to repair the damage. The Galicia and escorts sank or captured all of the merchantmen left behind. The Army took care of the troops that made it to shore. The Navies morale and pride at this victory was incalculable.

The Navy was secondary to the Army while later when aircraft became more important each service controlled its own aircraft while a joint aircraft factory provided most of the equipment. No seperate air force was ever created.

So to the ships, these will be kitbashes as that is what I have come to realise I am best at.

Galician Navy .

Capital Ships

Radetzky Class Semi-Dreadnought

GNS Bosnia (ex Radetzky 01/11) 4x12" 8x9.4"
GNS Macedonia (ex Zrinyi 09/11) 4x12" 8x9.4"

With the creation of Galicia in 1920 the new Navy received its first 3 capital ships from those surrendered by the Austro-Hungarians. These were a Hapsburg Class pre-Dreadnought and two Radetzky class semi-Dreadnoughts. The Hapsburg was utilised as a training ship and had been stripped of weapons and scrapped by 1930. The two Radetzky class ships were used from 1920 to 1928 as first class fleet units. With the two Viribus Unitus class ships they made up the Galician Black Sea Fleet till completion of the new Battlecruiser and Battleship in 1924 and 1927. From 1928 they were demilitarised and used as training ships with the weapons slowly being stripped off to provide weapons for new cruisers and battlecruisers. They were finally used as static AA defence units, one at Constanta and the other at Dubrovnik, armed with a variety of 88mm, 37mm, and 20mm weapons.



Displacement: 14,500 tons std 16,100 tons full load
Dimensions: 456ft x 82ft x 27ft
Machinery: 2 shaft VTS coal,20,000shp
Speed: 20.5 knots
Armament:
(As built)
4x12"
8x9.4"
14x5.9"
4x3" AA
4x50mm

(As of 1938)
8x88mm
4x37mm
10x20mm

Armour: 9.1" belt, 1.9" deck, 9.8" turrets
Crew: 890



Viribus Unitus Class Battleships

GNS Besarabia (ex Prinz Eugen 07/14) 12x12"
GNS Transylvania (ex Tegetthoff 07/13) 12x12"

Received incomplete.

Archduke Franz Ferdinand Class Battleship
GNS Hungaria (ex Monarch 06/27) 8x16"

Along with the incomplete battlecruiser (described below) the Allies found two incomplete battleships when the port of Trieste was taken over in 1919. Both were in the 70-75% complete stage where another 12-18 months work would be required to complete them. Both ships were inspected and the one launched as Monarch was deemed easiest to complete. The other ship was cannibalised of all the parts that were considered necessary to complete the ex-Monarch, the remaining battleship was ceded to Italy and they scrapped the ship from 1920 onwards. Four months after the battlecruiser was towed away the ex-Monarch was also towed to Devonport, UK, for completion. Like the battlecruiser the newly christened Hungaria was to be completed as cheaply as possible. The light battlecruiser Courageous, which was laid up and due to be converted to an aircraft carrier, was stripped of its superstructure which was fitted to the Hungaria. On completion the ship in 1927 it compared favourably with the US and Japanese ships of the same vintage and armament while only the Nelson was more heavily armed.



In 1937 the Hungaria was taken in hand for an 18 month rebuilding to bring it up to date with the other rebuilt battleships from around the world. The rebuilding did not go as far as some countries such as Britain took their rebuilding programmes as Galicia did not have the funds for that. The rebuilding removed the older 5.9" and 3.9" guns, plated the hull up to the forecastle deck level and used the space provided to fit four twin 125mm (4.9") per side while a new battery of octuple 2pd and the new 20mm AA guns were fitted. No improvements were made to the armour or machinery.


Prinz Asturias Class Battlecruiser

GNS Galicia (ex Prinz Asturias 04/23) 9x13.8"

In Jan/Feb of 1919 the victorious Allies undertook a survey of the Austro-Hungarian shipyards in which they discovered three ships ranging from 75-85% complete. There were two battleships and one battlecruiser. The battlecruiser was the nearest to completion (launched as the Prinz Asturias) having all the main and secondary armament fitted while the machinery was installed but had never been run. The main item missing was the bridge superstructure and ancillary equipment. The ship had been designed to break out through the Adriatic Narrows into the Mediterranean to disrupt and sink Allied shipping. Two Admiralty tugs were sent to Trieste where they took the ship in tow, destination Devonport. On arrival the ship was commissioned into the Galician Navy as the GNS Galicia. Berthed for completion in the dock next to where HMS Furious was undergoing reconstruction to an aircraft carrier, as the superstructure of Furious was removed it was refitted to the Galicia. This kept the cost of the ships completion to an absolute minimum, while providing it with up to date equipment not more than 3-5 years old. The most expensive part of the fitting out was the changing of the engines from coal fired to oil fired.



By Treaty the Galician Navy had to base its capital ships in the Black Sea to counter the Soviet Black Sea Fleet. So the Galicia arrived at Constanta in 1924 as the Queen of the Black Sea. The Galicia was by far and away the most capable ship in the Black Sea. For the next ten years the Galicia patrolled the Black Sea with brushes and near misses with Soviet vessels to liven up its patrols.



In 1934 the Galicia was taken in hand at Constanta for a refurbishment of her systems and armament. Due to the ordering of the three new ships money for Galicia's rebuilding was to be kept to a minimum. The secondary and AA weapons were to be upgraded but the superstructure, armour and hull were left untouched. The best part of the refit was the fitting of the new twin 125mm (4.9") dual purpose turrets and guns. The removal and plating in of the old 5.9" casemate guns gave weight back to allow for the new weapons.

Displacement: 34,000 tons std 37,850 tons full load
Dimensions: 754ft x 101ft x 29ft
Machinery: 4 shaft geared turbines, 105,000shp
Speed: 28 knots
Armament:
(As built)
9 x 13.8"
16 x 5.9"
6 x 88mm
8 x 2pd AA

(As of 1938)
9 x 13.8"
16 x 4.9"
32 x 2pd
32 x 0.5mg

Armour: 10" belt, 2.5" deck, 11"/5.9" turrets
Crew: 1200 (1325 as Flagship)


Built by GNS

Bulgaria Class Battlecruiser

GNS Bulgaria (09/36) 8x13.8"

The battlecruiser Bulgaria was the first major warship built at the new Constanta Naval Dockyards and Armoury. Great assistance had been received from Vickers-Armstrong in setting up the dockyards, and building bays, while Krupp assisted with the large gun foundry and the armour casting divisions. The first home grown weapons to be manufactured were the 13.8" guns that the plans for were supplied by Krupp. This was the same gun as fitted to the Galicia (above). Utilising the same guns made ammunition supply easier. Vickers helped with the design of the Bulgaria and supplied information on the quad turrets that were fitted to the Nelson (one of my other PD units). The all forward design suited the Galicians as they felt that they would spend most of their time chasing Soviet ships around the Black Sea. The fitting of a dual purpose secondary armament meant that the ship could be smaller than other equivalent ships.



Slovenia Class Battleships

GNS Slovenia (04/39) 12x13.8"
GNS Serbia (11/39) 12x13.8"

The Slovenia Class battleships were Galicias biggest and best ships built at the Royal Dockyards at Constanta. With the assistance of Vickers-Armstrongs (who were designing and building the King George V at the same time) an improved KGV type battleship was drawn up. Since Galicia was not a signatory of the various Treaties they could virtually build what they liked, but they were smart enough to know that if they exceeded the Treaty limits by too much they would lose the assistance and draw censure from the major powers.

Using the same quadruple turret as designed for the Bulgaria class battlecruisers, the Slovenia's fitted three in a larger hull to give a planned armament of 12x13.8". While not the biggest armament around it certainly gave the ships the best firepower in the Black Sea.



Eagle class Aircraft Carrier

GNS Eagle (conv 10/28)

The GNS Eagle started out life in 1912 as the passenger liner Kaiser Franz Joseph I. The Galician Navy received the ship as a troopship in 1921 as part of its start-up Navy from the surrendered Austro-Hungarian Fleet. The newly formed Admiralty used the ship to carry a 'Fast Reaction Force" of infantry with the battlefleet in the Black Sea. In 1924 a debate started as to whether the Galician Navy should have one of those new fangled ships to carry wheeled aircraft. Britain had two and was producing more, the US had one and was converting two, France was doing it, even the Eastern Devils Japanese had one, Italy was thinking about it. The Galician High Command decided they should have one. The search for a suitable ship started. The ex-Kaiser Franz Joseph I stood out as a contender.

The ship was taken in hand at the Constanta Naval Yard in late 1924 was surveyed and plans made, with work beginning in early 1925, the ship completing its conversion 10/1928.



Accomodation for the ships officers and flying officers ended up quite palatial as the designers left the after blocks of cabins for them. Two elevators were fitted for and aft to get the aircraft from hangar to flight deck. These items impacted on the carrying capacity of aircraft. The ship once completed could carry between 12 to 15 aircraft depending on size and type. During its conversion officers were sent to Britain to learn to fly from aircraft carriers. These officers did their circuit and bumps training aboard HMS Argus during 1926-27. Even with this training the landing and take-off accidents soon reduced their two full squadrons of aircraft down to a handful. More and a continuing supply were sourced through Britain. While the number of aircraft, when compared to the ships of other nations, they were plenty when your enemies had no aircraft carriers.

Hawk class Aircraft Carriers

GNS Hawk
GNS Kondor

Galicia had only the one aircraft carrier during the late 1920's and most of the 1930's. The times that the Eagle was under refit/repair became more numerous the older the ship became. This left the Galician Fleet without air cover during those periods. The Fleet commanders operating with the Eagle at hand to provide reconaisance felt naked when the ship was not available. With the bigger, faster, newer BC's and BB's under construction the usefulness of the Eagle was being degraded year by year. A new ship or better yet, a pair of new aircraft carriers were deemed a necessary acquisition. With the area of operations for the Galician Fleet being the Black and Mediterranean Seas, large carriers of the type being built by Great Britain (Ark Royal) were just too large. A ship somewhere between the Hermes and Ark Royal able to handle approximately 30 aircraft would be ideal.

Laid down at the Royal Dockyards, the two ships followed UK practices in layout and form. Enclosed bow and the AA armament being fitted in quadrants at the corners. At 670 feet the ships were not huge and equated more to big cruisers with a beam of 80 feet. Speed was an essential item to keep up with the new Capital Ships that were making 28/29 knots. Machinery at 80,000shp for a spedd of 30 knots was fitted. With one full hangar deck the ships could carry 30-34 aircraft. More could have been carried if the Galicians could have been convinced to reduce the number and size of the main DP 4.9" (125mm) guns to 88-90mm weapons.



Completed in February and June of 1940, the two ships had to get dispensation from the Allies and Axis to transit the ships from Great Britain through the Mediterranean to Galicia. As both sides were courting Galicia (still neutral at this point) to join the war on their side these permissions were given. One officer onboard described it as sailing under a Christmas tree, as every light, searchlight and anything else that would shine was kept on day and night to avoid any 'mistakes' being made.

The aircraft complement aboard when the ships arrived in Galician waters were Swordfish torpedo bombers and Skua fighter/dive bombers. The British were reluctant to supply the most modern aircraft with CVL's that may end up being used against them. As it turned out this was quite prescient as the Galicians joined the Axis in May 1941 in the assault on Russia. Having joined the Axis the Galicians started receiving German carrier aircraft from January 1942.

Cruisers.

Sankt Georg Class Armoured Cruiser

GNS Satmar (ex Sankt Georg 12/11)

Like other nations the Austro-Hungarians were taken in by the Royal Navys news that the Invincible's would be armed with 9.2" guns. The A-H Navy followed other nations and set up their first battlecruiser with the same layout as the Viribus Unitus class battleships but with twin 9.4" in superfiring positions. Unfortunately for the A-H Navy the Invincible was revealed in 1908 with 12" guns making the Sankt Georg look just a little bit undergunned. The ship was too far advanced by 1908 to be able to make any changes to the main armament to try to match the RN battlecruisers. With one stroke the RN Invincible made the French, German, Austro-Hungarian, and other countries armoured cruisers obsolete in comparison. The priority for the Sankt Georg was changed in 1909 and the ship was not completed until 1911. Priority being give to the new battleships. Referred to as a battlecruiser by the A-H Navy, to the rest of the world the ship was just another armoured cruiser.

Surrendered with other units of the A-H fleet in 1918, the ship was transferred to Galician control in late 1919. The new crews first major hurdle was to get the Satmar to the main base at Constanta in the Black Sea from Trieste on the Adriatic. The crew had to learn on the job as there was not enough trained crew members to run the ship satisfactorily. Once at Constanta, the first order of business was to re-label all the labels from German to the new Galician language.

The Satmar was used to patrol the border with the Soviet Union, while undertaking the work of training ship to feed the navies demands for more and more officers and seaman to man the ships being transferred to Galician control. The Satmar continued with these duties right through the 1920's. In 1930 the first major work was done on the ship with the conversion of the boilers from coal fired to oil fired. From then through to 1939 the Satmar had various changes made to it with new superstructure, secondary armament, and light AA guns being fitted when they became available. Nothing was done to the change the engines and boilers or armour, so by 1939 while it was still an effective unit it was very much a ship for secondary duties.



Admiral Spaun Class Scout Cruiser

GNS Bucovina (ex Adm Spaun 11/10) 7x3.9"

Helgoland Class Scout Cruiser

GNS Albania (ex Helgoland 8/14) 9x3.9"

Received incomplete

Zenta Class Light Cruiser

GNS Croatia (ex Ersatz Zenta) 2x7.5" 6x5.9"

Built by GNS

Herzgovia Class Light Cruisers

GNS Herzgovia (09/28) 8x5.9"
GNS Oltenia (10/28) 8x5.9"
GNS Dobrogea (06/32) 8x5.9"
GNS Moldova (11/32) 8x5.9"
GNS Gabrovo (07/34) 8x5.9"
GNS Burgas (01/35) 8x5.9"

The lack of light/scout cruisers to act with the battlefleet and the battlecruiser led to the Galician Navy laying down 6 ships which were supposed to form an homogenous group, but ended up being completed in three batches of two due to fiscal constraints. The design was a modified UK E-Class cruiser, with the same machinery and dimensions but with a new armament layout. The Galicians ordered eight of the new twin turrets being fitted to the Nelson class battleships, with a license to build more, into which they would fit the 15cm (5.9")/50cal guns removed from the older capital ships. The turrets fitted to Nelson had a maximum elevation of 60 degrees but this was reduced to 45 degrees in these export turrets. The ships being completed in three batches allowed modifications to the designs of the batch 2 and 3 ships being made as experience with the Batch 1 ships and new equipment was received.




Crisana Class Heavy Cruiser

GNS Crisana (07/32) 9x7.5"

Wallachia Class Armoured Cruisers

GNS Wallachia (08/37) 8x9.4"
GNS Montenegro (10/37) 8x9.4"

Danubia Class Minelaying Cruiser

GNS Danubia (03/39) 8x125mm (4.9")

Destroyers.

Tatra Class Destroyers

GNS Kishinev (ex Tatra 11/12) 2x3.9" 6x2.5" 4xTT
GNS Sofia (ex Balaton 11/12) 2x3.9 6x2.5" 4xTT

Tatra II Class Destroyers

GNS Tirana (ex Dukla 07/17) ) 2x3.9 6x2.5" 4xTT
GNS Satumare (ex Uzsok 09/17) ) 2x3.9 6x2.5" 4xTT

Improved Tatra Class Destroyers

GNS Zagreb (ex Triglav II 10/18) 2x4.7 4x75mm 4xTT
GNS Budapest (ex Lika II 09/18) 2x4.7 4x75mm 4xTT

Matchless Class Destroyers

GNS Bosnia (ex M class 1915) 3x4 4xTT
GNS Bucharesti (ex M class 1915) 3x4 4xTT
GNS Varna (ex M class 1915) 3x4 4xTT
GNS Skopje (ex M class 1915) 3x4 4xTT

Vifor Class Destroyer Leaders

GNS Marasta (1917) 5x4.7" 4x75mm 4xTT
GNS Marasesti (1917) 5x4.7" 4x75mm 4xTT

Built by GNS

Constanta Class Destroyers

GNS Constanta 07/33 4x4.9" 6xTT
GNS Dubrovnik 09/33 4x4.9" 6xTT
GNS Split 06/36 4x4.9" 8xTT
GNS Brasov 11/36 4x4.9" 8xTT

Sarajevo Class Destroyer Leaders

GNS Sarajevo 01/38 8x4.9" 8xTT
GNS Pecs 08/38 8x4.9" 8xTT

Miscelaneous.

M57 Class Minesweepers

GNS Bistrita (ex M57 1917) 2x88mm 1x57mm AA
GNS Prut (ex M57 1917) 2x88mm 1x57mm AA
GNS Somes (ex M57 1917) 2x88mm 1x57mm AA
GNS Murres (ex M57 1917) 2x88mm 1x57mm AA
GNS Timis (ex M57 1917) 2x88mm 1x57mm AA
GNS Arges (ex M57 1917) 2x88mm 1x57mm AA

A92 Class Torpedoboats

GNS Razim (exA92 1918) 2x88mm 2xTT
GNS Zmeica (exA92 1918) 2x88mm 2xTT

BT01 Class Torpedo Gunboats

GNS BT01-to-BT27 (1935 to 1944) 2x88mm 2xTT

Beside the major warships listed above, the Galician Navy also had a large force of river monitors that guarded and patrolled the Danube and other navigable frontier rivers.

Hi nice but,
would the allies really want to reunite a strong powerful empire to take the place of the AH one ?
err I think you just lost all Anglo-French support overnight !

This is the Anglo-French worst nightmare a large 'AH' like empire speaking German and a Germany with Austria that's bound to join them !

I think the French will very soon be funding all the rebel movements (and I can see lots of them).

Sorry if I'm poking holes in you nice work.

JSB

It's worth considering the location and direction of your inboard shafts on those BBs. I dare say it's quite unlikely that they could coexist with your aft turrets as drawn.

Hmmm... nice ships (minus what Erik_T said), but as the background, I have doubts. :/
One is what JSB already mentioned. Major powers wouldn't be keen to create "Austro-Hungary 2.0", especially German-speaking. It would be perhaps slightly more likely to see Yugoslav-Romanian-Albanian (perhaps) federation, but without Bulgaria and Hungary in it.

Another thing, and one that bothers me most, is: why Galicia, when it has not a square kilometer of historical Galicia in it's borders?
Name (Galicia and Lodomeria) comes from principality/kingdom of Halicz and Włodzimierz (Polish names, today Ukraine's Halycz and Volodymyr), latinized into Galiciae et Lodomeriae. In more current (to Your AU) times it referred to Austro-Hungarian province encompassing todays southern Poland (with Kraków) and south-western Ukraine (with Lvov) - north of Czechoslovakia and north/north-west of Romania.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galicia_%2 ... _Europe%29

And final thing, not wrong, just not to my personal liking ( ), is the geographic extent of Poland, whose western borders are as they were before 1939, but eastern are based on Curzon line (which was the line British government - and Soviets - wanted to force us to accept in 1919-1920, but which become our eastern border only in 1944-1945), effectively making Poland a rump state in this AU.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curzon_line

One the top view on the stern there are two lines the go to nowhere on the ships edge

_________________
Work list(Current)
Miscellaneous|Victorian Colonial Navy|Murray Riverboats|Colony of Victoria AU|Project Sail-fixing SB's sail shortage
How to mentally pronounce my usernameRow-(as in a boat)Don-(as in the short form of Donald)Dough-(bread)
"Loitering on the High Seas" (Named after the good ship Rodondo)
There's no such thing as "nothing left to draw" If you can down 10 pints and draw, you're doing alright by my standards

Rodondo: I altered the stern and forgot to remove those - fixed
Erik_t: altered the prop placement so that they do not encroach on the barbette

As to the others - please note - going to German as second language (each country region would retain its own primary language) this was not done till after census 3-5 years after creation. A country created like that would require a common language and in that area it would be German. French/English would have had no takers - very few people would have spoken either of those. The country concentration I have used to form Galicia has been done to create enough of an economy to be able to afford capital ships. As to the name Galicia being used for the grouping, what other name could have been applied to the area that would have been acceptable?