Shipbucket

part of the reason the UK Phantoms used spey was the greater thrust as at the time there was a view to launch them off hermes and the spey was seen as a solution. plus it saved jobs in the uk.

What if Britain had a larger carrier based on Malta hull?Of course this means that these will replace one class of real aircraft carries of RN. And what about the Audacious-class aircraft carrier?

Also from these What in RN aircraft posted some pages back is there something that could be used instead of the Phantom?

If we replace the pair of Audacious hulls with a pair of Malta (and somehow keep then running) you've essentially got two Midway type vessels floating around.

Thinking about aircraft, I'm not really sure I'd go that far down the domestic route with regards to combat aircraft. Going along a similar vein to the Marine Nationale might be an idea. F-8K and perhaps the "Attack Crusader" (predecessor to the A-7) or F-8Ks and A-7s (Both Spey Powered). It would give pretty good commonality between types system wise and both aircraft would be of similar size and shape to aid better deck / hangar spotting.

For support types I'd stick with the Gannet as the equivalent of the Alizé in the AEW ,ASW and COD roles

Helicopter wise I'd probably (seeing as we're looking at a larger hull now) go with a combined set of Sea Kings (Both HAS and HAR varieties)

Totting up the totals I'd imagine them to be something along the lines of the following:

14 F-8s (12 Immediate Action - 2 Immediate Reserve)
10 F-8 (Strike) or A-7 (8 Immediate Action - 2 Immediate Reserve)
10 F-8 (Strike) or A-7 (8 Immediate Action - 2 Immediate Reserve)
3 Gannet AEW
4 Gannet ASW
1 P.139 COD (Permanently Embarked)
4-6 Sea Kings (2 HAR + 2-4 HAS)

I apologise if any bits don't make sense as my coffee has yet to kick in

_________________
AU Projects: | Banbha et al. | New England: The Divided States
Blood and Fire

This fleet you proposed is a really nice idea which could work.

I thought RN aircraft Carriers as follows: (I am aware about the history of British aircraft carriers)

-Colossus Class: Like real world, scrapped or sold until early 1960's.
-2 Majestic Class were modified to anti-submarine warfare carriers with Gannet/Sea King. 3 were sold to Canada, India, Australia (one each).
-Centaur Class cancelled completely
-3 Audacious Class built (3, as originally planned)-Third ship of the class sold in India in 1978 and became INS Viraat. Viraat is still active, while RN ones scrapped in late 1980's.

-When the CVA-01 cancelled, RN naval architects proposed an smaller aircraft carrier based on old Malta class with Type 42 destroyer electronics and Sea Dart missiles. The Sea Dart tested like US way-take a surviving WW2 ship large enough, put the GMLS and radars on it and test them. In RN case, the "lucky" ship was HMS Sheffield (C24), which scrapped after testing of Sea Dart completed.
-These aircraft carriers approved and built in late 1960's to early 1970's, named Queen Elizabeth and Queen Victoria ("Queen Class aircraft Carrier").

-The Invisible Class replaced the old Majestic Class in ASW role officially. The third ship of class built for Australia with different electronics and without Sea Dart. Later the Ocean Class was built as helicopter carrier and Invisible Class became Harrier Carriers.

-This aircraft carrier (http://www.shipbucket.com/images.php?di ... eracao.png) replaced the Queen Class in my scenario. Of course with British electronics and systems, even propulsion)

-So today my Britain has 4 carriers, Invisible Class and the above.

In this scenario I try to find any of British What if aircraft could work, having in my mind something like Sweden (but much more willing to export). if you read some pages back you will see that. This RAF and RN have mostly British designed aircraft, instead of imported.

P.S Of course I know the reason for the Spey-Phantom appeared.

there was the proposed Buccaneer 2, this was also targeted at the RAF as a cheaper alternative to the TSR2, she would have been supersonic, had Head Up displays, the computer systems that would be destined for the P.1154 and the radar system based on that destined for TSR 2. at the time it was mooted that you could buy 4 Buccaneer 2 for the cost of 1 TSR2 or 2 for the price of the F111. if were going for possible home grown stuff i think this is a highly likely strike aircraft. as for a fighter not sure. a number of proposed designs did follow the Vixen but of all the reference i have cant see anything that would better the Phantom, however had the fleet air arm not bought the Phantom and british air industry had developed its own fighter from 1960's then who knows.
In all the references i have of British secret and never build aircraft there appears to be a lack of naval inspired aircraft from 1960 up to the 1980's when a resurgence began to happen but by this time things were trapped into the STOVL or ASTOVL docturin. but then maybe had history been more kind to the RN navy possibly a conventional aircraft based on the BAC P.1214 or 1216 may have developed sooner....... there were also in the 1970's designs from BAC and Hawker that although not related in any way happened to end up looking remarkably similar to the US F16 and F18 maybe worth looking into this root.

Some of my best references i find come from British Secret Projects books by Chis Gibson and Tony Buttler, they cover pretty much every design that made it onto paper from 1949 to present day and include some interesting proposals for Bombers, Fighters, Ram Jets and Missiles.......

The Spey Phantom was the best solution for real Britain. But the question is about the P.1154: If we forget politics, would this aircraft useful as a fighter bomber or not?

According to Lord Mountbatten, one TSR2 cost as five Buccanner I.For the Buccaneer II you said above. But the F-111 was finally much more expensive per unit than the TSR2- Look in Australia situation.

As for other designs, I remember the P.1202 (Hood designed it already) and there is the P.1216. Latter could be competitive with the F-35 Lighting. Both the BAC P.1214 and the 1216 worth a second look, since this is an AU related thread.

Blackbuck also make a good suggestion above, for F-8.

p.1154 not probably as a fighter, more a Strike/Nuclear strike bomber. but P1226-1 showed promise as both a strike aircraft and fighter....

This is a very straight forward design..Perhaps too much..

The harrier did well in Falklands with Argentinian Mirage III/V and A-4 Skyhawk. What about Argentina had KC-707, Fairey Delta III,Mirages and A-4, while Britain had P.1154/Jaguar-M instead of Harrier?

AU RAF Vickers VC.10:



VC.10 AEW has the radar of the E-3, but British designed and built consoles. The R.2 has all British electronics and is equivalent with RC-135. The TACAMO developed under a joint British-French program.