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eswube
Post subject: Re: Hellenian KingdomPosted: April 26th, 2014, 1:06 pm
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Of course that frigates themselves could be exported. There could be a problem, however, with export licenses for some elements of equipment (electronics and armament) - particularly - but not only - of US origin.


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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Hellenian KingdomPosted: April 26th, 2014, 3:45 pm
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Which could be the most plausible customers concerning elements used? I think I can make a variant with French or Swedish electronics, perhaps Israeli also to overcome some restrictions.

For instance Argentina did not had any restrictions during 1970's and could purchase the export variant of Kimon Mk3, later in 1990's when relationship with USA improved, Argentina perhaps could attain electronics to modify 2 Konon Mk3 to AAW. In Chile had dictatorship then, so again there is a difficult situation to sell arms.

South Africa is a very difficult situation, all depend from Netherlands attitude of the Apartheid, since electronics are based on Dutch know-how. Adis I missile has a radar based on Swedish design (but vastly modified), it is a question about Swedish restrictions (if any).

Any suggestions?


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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Hellenian KingdomPosted: May 5th, 2014, 7:58 am
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A revised version of my Sea Falcon missile system:

[ img ]


Last edited by odysseus1980 on November 22nd, 2014, 1:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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eswube
Post subject: Re: Hellenian KingdomPosted: May 5th, 2014, 8:13 am
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Restrictions on Argentina in 1980s were mostly from Great Britain and USA. Sanctions applied by other European countries were relatively short-lived. As for the South Africa - since 1977 there was UN Security Council arms embargo, so any "official" sales are out of the question (though in real-life quiet sales, via intermediaries etc. did continued on smaller scale - but it wouldn't apply to major warships) - and Sweden was a strong supporter of sanctions against apartheid-era South Africa.


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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Hellenian KingdomPosted: May 5th, 2014, 9:44 pm
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In Argentina first batch of four Konon Mk3 supposed to ordered in 1973-1974 and built locally (except first ship) until 1980. There was an option for two more ships, which expanded to four (these extra two ships were OPV Zeus Mk3). Ships of the second batch built in Argentina from 1984-1989. Two were modified to AAW for replacing the Type 42 destroyers in mid 1990's to late 1990's (after relationship with USA improved) using GMLS MK13 and FCS/Radars from USA (came for scrapped Charles F.Adams DDG) combined with the CDS of the modernized Messimvria Class. So, this Argentina does not has the MEKO 360, has instead 2 Konon Mk3/Adis, 4 Konon Mk3/Exocet and 2 Zeus Mk3.

In South Africa a variant with Gabriel III missiles and Israeli electronics was proposed in 1980, but did not approved both from Parliament and National Assembly, so this goes to "Never Built".

What about South East Asia and Chile?Ecuador? Also I thought Pakistan (in 1980's, when US assistance was plentiful)


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bezobrazov
Post subject: Re: Hellenian KingdomPosted: May 6th, 2014, 1:38 pm
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Hmmm...your timeline is not quite correct. Mind you that Margaret Thatcher virtually had a veto on US-Argentine relations during her premiership (1979-90) and John Major would've also protested against any strategic US arms sales to Argentina. This was mainly during the presidencies of Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush.

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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Hellenian KingdomPosted: May 6th, 2014, 2:00 pm
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The Standard equipped variant would be appeared when Clinton was president in USA, between 1994-1999. In real life, Argentinian A-4 Skyhawks were modernized during this period and this is the period I mean. 80 Standard missiles of old reconditioned stock were also given (SM-1MR).

What about the other possible export customers?


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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Hellenian KingdomPosted: May 16th, 2014, 8:01 am
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Air Command of Hellenic Coast Guard (AU):

-For final table of HCG aircraft, look in page 71.

-In real world, a agreement between Beriev and Hellenic Aircraft Industry was established in 2008 for manufacture parts for Be-200 and Sukhoi Superjet, but I do not know if proceed further than papers.

-In this scenario proceed and all 12 Beriev Be-200 ordered are in service, HFFS was interested in the Be-200 since early 2000's. Hellenic Fire Fighting Service has 8 airframes in service and Coast Guard 4. All have fire fighting capability and crews are also trained for fighting oil rig fires. In this occasion, HCG Be-200 on patrol will be the first to react and later assisted by HFFS units and fire boats from below.


Last edited by odysseus1980 on December 9th, 2014, 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Hellenian KingdomPosted: May 19th, 2014, 5:49 am
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I decided what to do with those frigates.

First four built entered service with Black Sea Navy Command ( all AAW variant with Adis I missiles). Then followed another six for Aegean Navy Command in two batches:

First batch of 4 ships built in 1978-1981 with OTO Melara 127mm, Mk112 Launcher ( ASROC and RGM-66 missiles) and Mk29 Sea Sparrow. This means that RHN AU did not modernized its Gearing destroyers but decommissioned them in early 1980's. Since these frigates did not had Mk13, they equipped with larger hangar for 10tn helicopter. They feature aluminum superstructure to save weight for weaponry (a special fire resisted aluminum alloy was developed specially for Konon Mk3 Class and its synthesis is classified). All featured also Variable Depth Sonar.
Second batch, Salamis Mk2, known also a Crete Class built in 1982-1983. These had SSM Adis II and equipped also with the SUR-18 ASW rocket.

Another interesting feature of Salamis Class is their surface radar, which is a Signaal LW-08 combined with LW-03 antenna.

Then followed 10 S-type frigates, first two built in Netherlands and 8 in Hellenic Kingdom under license.

So, my Navy would have 16 modern frigates by 1990-1991. Some older destroyers though soldiered on until early 1990's,when all decommissioned ( Sub- classes Velos,Aspis and Thyella ).

Export customers:

- Argentina
- Pakistan
-Equador ( received two rebuilt ex- Black Sea units without AAW equipment in mid 1990's).


How this sound?


Last edited by odysseus1980 on January 5th, 2015, 8:08 am, edited 3 times in total.

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eswube
Post subject: Re: Hellenian KingdomPosted: May 22nd, 2014, 8:49 am
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I'm not metallurgist, but am not sure if you can have fire-resistant aluminum that would still be aluminum (I mean, it just has melting temperature as it has), but ships generally look quite nice (though I'm not sure if the director for Sparrows/Aspides isn't bit too low).


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