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jabba
Post subject: Re: Aegis vs AshmPosted: March 22nd, 2014, 11:36 am
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This looks... terrifying.

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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Aegis vs AshmPosted: March 22nd, 2014, 11:42 am
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and ESSM, SM-1/2 etc. never intercept an missile, they are heeding right toward each other, so speed is irrelevant.

what you need is an missile that can't be seen on radar (stealth), have high maneuverability, can think for it self, can recognize targets by it self and chose what to attack, have ability to JAM all communication and radar and the ability work together with multiple missiles, where one is the boss and decide by it self what tactics it's going to use (and in some cases can send one of the missiles on an suicide run)

Now find that type of missile, and you have the best missile ever. Wait a minute, Norway have.... and it's called NSM.


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Rodondo
Post subject: Re: Aegis vs AshmPosted: March 22nd, 2014, 12:38 pm
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And that New Lockheed Martin concept one

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Shipright
Post subject: Re: Aegis vs AshmPosted: March 22nd, 2014, 1:28 pm
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For sea skimming missiles it depends of ducting and other things for the range of detention and depth of fire. SM2s are less useful for some of the newer missiles and if you factor in any element of surprise or operator reaction factors you can end up with a depth of fire of one. However, there is nothing out there currently that ESSM or the newer block CIWS or RAM can't handle as designed.

I am not surprised this included a ASBM fanboi section. The thing is a myth and does not exist. Even if it it did the targeting info required to use it would be near impossible to get and if you did have it you would be using much more appropriate ASCMs to exploit it. It's the new boogey man to justify more SM3 upgrades.


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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Aegis vs AshmPosted: March 22nd, 2014, 2:21 pm
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another thing I remember about NSM is that it's sea skimming skills is a bit different. than for example Harpoon. the NSM, have the capability to follow every single height difference in the sea. (it fly at various height during it's run, and not like the old once that keeps them self at an standard height.)


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Rodondo
Post subject: Re: Aegis vs AshmPosted: March 22nd, 2014, 2:32 pm
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I've always felt the Bramos is a muscle car missile, numbers and lots of them but no way to use the to the fullest extent

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Judah14
Post subject: Re: Aegis vs AshmPosted: March 22nd, 2014, 3:01 pm
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acelanceloet wrote:
hahahahaha
you are joking, right?
you fire one anti-ship missile and you expect the AEGIS system to find it difficult?
bloody hell, AEGIS is an anti-saturation system. you have to fire more missiles at the same time at it then it can counter. if you fire just one missile, the missile is being shot down moments after it is detected. whatever the missile type.
Well, AEGIS *could* be saturated since it uses 2 to 4 SPG-62 directors for terminal phase guidance. But for Tacticos/APAR/SMART-L, with the capability to guide 16 missiles in terminal phase, is a different story.


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MihoshiK
Post subject: Re: Aegis vs AshmPosted: March 22nd, 2014, 3:36 pm
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Judah14 wrote:
acelanceloet wrote:
hahahahaha
you are joking, right?
you fire one anti-ship missile and you expect the AEGIS system to find it difficult?
bloody hell, AEGIS is an anti-saturation system. you have to fire more missiles at the same time at it then it can counter. if you fire just one missile, the missile is being shot down moments after it is detected. whatever the missile type.
Well, AEGIS *could* be saturated since it uses 2 to 4 SPG-62 directors for terminal phase guidance. But for Tacticos/APAR/SMART-L, with the capability to guide 16 missiles in terminal phase, is a different story.
Still largely irrelevant, since the illuminators are only used in the final moments of engagement. Unless the attacker fires his salvo(s) so that there is a large number of missiles coming from different directions, which are all timed to arrive at the same moment, it's still going to be very very hard to saturate Aegis. I mean, the USN build Aegis to face the threat of the Soviet forces, kings of (supersonic) missile spam. They knew what they wanted out of the system...

And why does anybody even listen to Karlo Kopp? The man is regarded as a joke by anyone who actually works in the defence establishment.

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Karle94
Post subject: Re: Aegis vs AshmPosted: March 22nd, 2014, 4:19 pm
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Saturation is also more difficult because there will always be more than one AEGIS ship in one battle group.


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jabba
Post subject: Re: Aegis vs AshmPosted: March 22nd, 2014, 4:44 pm
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MihoshiK wrote:
And why does anybody even listen to Karlo Kopp? The man is regarded as a joke by anyone who actually works in the defence establishment.
Carlo Kopp wrote:
Curiously, we have not seen any public proposals to add further illuminator/engagement radars (eg SPG-60 series) on either the FFGs or the ANZACs. Adding an additional pair to either class would double the ships' capacity to handle a saturation attack, and also increase the likelihood of successfully killing a 2 round Alfa salvo. However, it would also weaken the case for a SPY-1 Aegis system, and bigger ships to carry it, which perhaps explains its lack of attractiveness.

The big question which must be asked is a simple one. At what point does the massive expediture on SAMs and radars required to get any measure of survivability from a surface warship outweigh the operational usefulness of the vessel itself ? If tanker supported fighters, which are capable of performing many other roles, can survivably destroy opposing ASCM shooting warships and aircraft, is not air power a better investment for blue water ASuW and AAW ?

The naval lobby frequently likes to argue that air power is an adjunct and thus a supporting capability in the blue water ASuW and AAW roles. Perhaps it is time for them to finally accept that technology has overtaken the small surface warship, and that without prohibitive investments in AAW/SAM capabilities, it is best used as a niche asset for specialised roles such as ASW, patrol, escort and fire support in lower threat level environments.

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