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ezgo394
Post subject: Re: IoT (Isle of Texas)Posted: August 8th, 2010, 4:01 am
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Same as always. Good weapons being VLS, 2 5" turrets, a helipad/hanger. The standard stuff.

What if I had nuke destroyers and frigates? (there is really no size difference, just function)

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Thiel
Post subject: Re: IoT (Isle of Texas)Posted: August 8th, 2010, 4:51 am
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Again, what's its mission. Without that, it's impossible to say what systems it should have.
What type of combat system should have? AEGIS, FlexFire or maybe something else. That'll have a huge impact on the radars you can use.

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ezgo394
Post subject: Re: IoT (Isle of Texas)Posted: August 8th, 2010, 6:00 pm
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Aegis. ASW, AAW, ASuW. Same as most US Ships.

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Thiel
Post subject: Re: IoT (Isle of Texas)Posted: August 8th, 2010, 6:17 pm
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So in essence, what you want is a Burke. That is in now way what you'd consider a cheap ship.
If you want to go cheap you have to face some rather hard compromises when it comes to equipment.
The Norwegian Nansen class is a good example of this. While it's capable of much the same missions as a Burke, the RNoN had to settle for fewer or less capable weapons in order to keep the price down.

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ezgo394
Post subject: Re: IoT (Isle of Texas)Posted: August 8th, 2010, 6:24 pm
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Ok, well when I came up with the idea of a nuclear powered ship, I didnt really care if its cheap or not. Now, a big question, which I still cant "understand" it. Do I NEED stealth? Do I NEED to make it angular?

And one last thing. Is it "safe" to have a helipad in between 2 structures?

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Thiel
Post subject: Re: IoT (Isle of Texas)Posted: August 8th, 2010, 6:34 pm
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ezgo394 wrote:
Ok, well when I came up with the idea of a nuclear powered ship, I didnt really care if its cheap or not. Now, a big question, which I still cant "understand" it. Do I NEED stealth? Do I NEED to make it angular?
Let me put it like this:
Do you honestly believe that every single navy on the planet who can afford to do their own R&D would spend significant parts of their already strained budgets if it didn't? Snide comments aside, these people aren't stupid, and they have access to a whole lot more info than even shipboard radar tech, let alone us civilians have.
Also, theoretically, it doesn't need to be angular. It should, again theoretically, be possible to do something akin to what the USAF did with the B-2.
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And one last thing. Is it "safe" to have a helipad in between 2 structures?
Midship helipads certainly have their advantages, but whether they're enough to counter the downsides is entirely up to the Navy in question to decide.
I believe one of the early proposals for either the Type 43 or the Type 45 destroyers had the flight deck amidships.

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ezgo394
Post subject: Re: IoT (Isle of Texas)Posted: August 8th, 2010, 6:37 pm
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So... I don't need to make it angular? But what would I do then? I'm sorry this is just kind of confusing for me.

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Thiel
Post subject: Re: IoT (Isle of Texas)Posted: August 8th, 2010, 7:35 pm
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ezgo394 wrote:
So... I don't need to make it angular? But what would I do then? I'm sorry this is just kind of confusing for me.
Compare the F117 and the B2. The F117 is angular with lots of flat planes, and this is in essence what current generation stealth ships are doing. The B2 on the other hand is smooth and curvy and if I'm not mistaken, even more stealthy than the F117, at least for its size. Now, whether it's practical, or even possible, to build a stealth ship along the same lines is something I don't know, indeed I wouldn't even be surprised if no-one outside the relevant R&D environments knows.
Anyway, with current generation stealth, angular seems to be the only way to go.

As for FFGNs, DDGNs and CGNs, I'm not certain that nuclear propulsion is worth it for a couple of reasons.
1: Nuclear reactors are big and heavy compared to gas turbines, and their max output isn't higher. Their sustained max output, however, is.
2: Nuclear reactors require significantly more out of the machinery spaces than a gas turbine. Not only do they need to be shielded against radiation, they also require far more in way of cooling and other auxiliary systems.
3: They are very manpower and maintenance intensive.
4: Overseas basing is going to be a real problem. It's one thing to allow someone to park a single 100.000 ton ship in your harbour, quite something else to allow him to park five or six 5.000-10.000 ton ships.

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TimothyC
Post subject: Re: IoT (Isle of Texas)Posted: August 8th, 2010, 11:42 pm
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Thiel - you will notice that the stealthing of ships hasn't gone as far as some were predicting, simply because the RCS isn't going down fast enough to be worth the added cost.

As for nuclear, the smallest nuclear combatant is going to come in at around 5-8k tons. The basing disadvantage is that some people don't let nuclear ships in. The basing advantage is that you don't need to refuel at foreign ports. And while nuclear ships are more expensive to build (in the early 1960s it was four or five nuclear carriers vs six conventional carriers), total lifecycle costs for a nuclear carrier would be lower.

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Thiel
Post subject: Re: IoT (Isle of Texas)Posted: August 9th, 2010, 12:11 am
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TimothyC wrote:
Thiel - you will notice that the stealthing of ships hasn't gone as far as some were predicting, simply because the RCS isn't going down fast enough to be worth the added cost.
True, but that doesn't meant it doesn't work.
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As for nuclear, the smallest nuclear combatant is going to come in at around 5-8k tons. The basing disadvantage is that some people don't let nuclear ships in. The basing advantage is that you don't need to refuel at foreign ports. And while nuclear ships are more expensive to build (in the early 1960s it was four or five nuclear carriers vs six conventional carriers), total lifecycle costs for a nuclear carrier would be lower.
But is the lower lifetime cost enough to be worth it when it comes to smaller ships?
They require more manpower to operate, the turbines doesn't last as long as either gas or steam turbines and the cost of nuclear fuel is directly related, if somewhat behind on the curve, to the cost of oil.
At the same time, the hulls are going to be even more expensive to build compared to its conventional brother than is the case on super carriers due to the far tighter space constraints. Coolers et al does not scale down well.

And the basing problem is a rather serious one, since a large proportions of the US's allies won't allow nuclear powered ships in their harbours. Granted, carriers are tends to get special permits, but I have a hard time imagining an FFGN getting the same treatment. Remember, nuclear ships aren't any more survivable than their conventional counterparts.
Imagine the political snarfu Cole would have become if she'd been nuclear.

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