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It's been nigh impossble to find good close up diagrams of first rate ships of the line, none the less I started work on redoing the bow. where should I go from here?

Well, while CraigH:s help is welcome, one must consider his example: it's a fifth or sixth rate, with one (single) gundeck. It is also correspondingly smaller in every dimension applicable. You need to find the correct reference, i. e. if you're doing a first- or second-rate, then you need to find references for those! However, the way CraigH is showing how he's shaped the bow railings etc is very instructive - but again, yours will be so much bigger!

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My Avatar:Петр Алексеевич Безобразов (Petr Alekseevich Bezobrazov), Вице-адмирал , царская ВМФ России(1845-1906) - I sign my drawings as Ari Saarinen

This might help.

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Source Materiel is always welcome.

any particular reson why the bow is unfinished, out of curiosity

because 50% of the ship is, I guess.

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ahh ok, it's a nice ship but it wont help me with my work on the bow.

Try these two SB Links:
http://www.shipbucket.com/forums/viewto ... f=12&t=869
Nuestra Señora de la Santísima Trinidad (1769)

http://z11.invisionfree.com/shipbucket/ar/t257.htm
Shipbucket - Archive Forum! > Real Life Designs > Historical ships

They're closer to what you want and can easily emulate.

The example I presented earlier is indeed a smaller ship (frigate), same general time period and was indeed included strictly as an example of linework, yours does have the additional decks but the needed structures differ incrementally only in size, add nature of fairing curves.

The overall structure, all those curvy rails define the ship's head, a generally triangular platform that served a couple functions. It was the crew's crapper. It was a platform that provided workspace for the bowsprit and also provided another spot to work the anchors. The rails also provided a cosmetic function, cleaned up the lines of a really ugly and blunt bow structure.

CraigH

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In active progress
More Ships with Sails
Early Torpedo Boats in SB and FD Scales
Some railroad stuff
More random stuff that strikes me!

I've been using both, but at that scale it's hard to get a good idea for the finer details.

At that scale we can pretty much ignore a lot of the finer details.

Let's face it, SB Scale is right on the edge of workability for the old sailing ships. We're talking most rigging that should be 1/2 pixel wide or finer. Ditto on decorative woodwork details.

I sit back and focus on the highlights and deep tones first, trace where I can. Were aiming for "verisimilitude". the appearance of being true or real.

Once I'm reasonably satisfied I then play with shadowing to enhance definition, create depth, etc. In actuality we end up with with a lot of semi-defined noise if one zooms in to 800x (in MS Paint as a universal example). The shadowing is always color tones related to the important part, be it highlight or background body shape.

It helps to know the structures you're looking at but not critical. One can get a pretty decent understanding of the shapes and how they fit together by burning an evening Googling images of these ships. Look for period artwork, ship model galleries, etc. since there aren't too many of these ships around.

See if these help:
http://step.polymtl.ca/~coyote/drawingsd/drawing07.jpg
http://step.polymtl.ca/~coyote/drawingsd/drawing05.jpg
http://step.polymtl.ca/~coyote/drawingsd/drawing03.jpg
http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprint ... tory-3.png

CraigH

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In active progress
More Ships with Sails
Early Torpedo Boats in SB and FD Scales
Some railroad stuff
More random stuff that strikes me!

thease are exactally what I was looking for, thank ye sir.