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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Some Thoughts about What If British AircraftsPosted: April 10th, 2013, 10:20 am
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Handley Page HP.111C,also there was the Vickers VC-7 or V.1000.

Of course the Sea King is perfect,just asked.

My idea for this thread is to create an AU United Kingdom (mostly in aviation,RN & RAF).For ships and army later.
This AU however would have the Sea King and the Lynx.

The name "Eagle" for the TSR.2 is not mine,comes from sites about Alterate TSR.2s.Following the UK aircraft naming,which names could have been proposed?

The Skybolt was a never where,but sometimes parts from cancelled missiles found way to later projects.Perhaps its engine and some electronics could be used.I will post some "variants" or missiles "derived" from the Skybolt.

Here we have some AU Rotodynes "built by Kaman".They seem to be a variant of the prototype.However the Chinook was made costly effective due to Vietnam War,this is a fact.

As for the VC-10,I posted already my own MP variant before saw the photos here.I also thought a VC-10 with the radar of E-3 and I see is somewhat plausible.

I will also make the "real" VC-10 MP (based on eswube's VC-10).

What about the cost of ordering P.1154 vs the cost of the British Phantom?

As I wrote in What-If British Aircrafts thread,could have been a HS-136 AEW using the radar form the HS.125?(as posted)


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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Some Thoughts about What If British AircraftsPosted: May 16th, 2013, 9:29 am
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Rolls Royce was naming jet engines by rivers of UK in 1960's,so I want to propose some possible names for the BS100 engine (we have the Pr.1154).The "Rolls Royce Severn" is sound good in my ears,if anyone has another sugestion I look foward to hear.

Another idea is to use the BS100 in the production Do-31 (if remember I posted a list of What-if Do31).So the aircraft would use only two engines of the same type instead of four of different type reducing the maintenance/supporting cost and also would allow increase in load.Perhaps even a longer fuselage could also be allowed from the use of BS100 in Do-31 airframe.

An the crazy thing:What about an AEW built on Do-31 airframe?British of course,And I will do English Do-31,the -K variant.


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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Some Thoughts about What If British AircraftsPosted: December 26th, 2013, 10:43 pm
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Another thought about Skybolt is a cheaper turbojet variant similar with US AGM-28 Hound Dog missile.

Story goes like this:

When the Skybolt was cancelled, about 100 airframes were left, which were the total production of the missile. British aquired all and modified it to use a special, Armstrong Siddeley Sapphire engine downgraded to 8500lbf. Fins was similar with Blue Steel missile and tail had only the upper fin. Range was about 1600km.


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TimothyC
Post subject: Re: Some Thoughts about What If British AircraftsPosted: December 27th, 2013, 12:11 am
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It won't work. Skybolt was an ALBM, with the flight profile that such entails. What you are talking about would be for the UK to built an all new larger ALCM. A new ALCM isn't totally unreasonable, if the UK has committed to maintaining the effectiveness of the V-Bomber force.

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klagldsf
Post subject: Re: Some Thoughts about What If British AircraftsPosted: December 27th, 2013, 2:11 am
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If you're going to put an air-breathing jet engine into it - well, what Timothy says. Strictly speaking you don't have to change the flight profile but then why swap out a rocket engine for a turbojet? You're going to essentially put airplane wings on that thing and treat it like an early cruise missile (like Mace and Snark and what not).


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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Some Thoughts about What If British AircraftsPosted: December 27th, 2013, 2:20 am
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Actually I had in mind a british missile similar with US Hound Dog using a modified Skybolt frame with different electronics and same flight profile with Hound Dog.Both missiles shared the W28 nuclear warhead, but british variant had also a convectional warhead.

Then a all British ACLM will replace it. Both weapons names will be inspired from Rainbow Code (I love these names).


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TimothyC
Post subject: Re: Some Thoughts about What If British AircraftsPosted: December 27th, 2013, 2:28 am
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odysseus1980 wrote:
Actually I had in mind a british missile similar with US Hound Dog using a modified Skybolt frame with different electronics and same flight profile with Hound Dog.Both missiles shared the W28 nuclear warhead, but british variant had also a convectional warhead.

Then a all British ACLM will replace it. Both weapons names will be inspired from Rainbow Code (I love these names).
That's not going to work at all. The airframe for Skybolt works as an ALBM, but not as an ALCM. You're better off buying Hound Dogs outright prior to the production line closing.

Or finding some way for the USAF to keep the Skybolt program going. That's my preferred option.

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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Some Thoughts about What If British AircraftsPosted: December 27th, 2013, 2:53 am
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Another solution could be to develop the Blue Steel 2.

The Skybolt seem to be unnessary for US and this is the problem. Why fund a missile you do not need?
But the Skybolt worked well? if yes, what about Britain continued its developent alone?

Could the Hound Dog "britisized" with british engine at least?

Also Britain could develop an ACLM of its own, RR had several small jet engines to power it in 1960's.


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TimothyC
Post subject: Re: Some Thoughts about What If British AircraftsPosted: December 27th, 2013, 4:06 am
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odysseus1980 wrote:
Another solution could be to develop the Blue Steel 2.
That is another option.
odysseus1980 wrote:
The Skybolt seem to be unnessary for US and this is the problem. Why fund a missile you do not need?
But the Skybolt worked well? if yes, what about Britain continued its developent alone?
Skybolt put another type of weapon in the SAC quiver that would have been difficult to defend against (same issues for defense as Polaris - distributed and uncertain launch points, and ballistic trajectories that take a different type of interceptor vs. ALCMs). It's not out of the question to come up with an alternate history where they get deployed - especially if you can keep the B-70 around - it give the Valk a long range stand off weapon when it's limited to 14 foot weapons in the bay (look up the geometry of the doors at some point for why this is).
odysseus1980 wrote:
Could the Hound Dog "britisized" with british engine at least?
Of all of the ALCMs, I'd give the Hound Dog the best chance of such a modification being workable
odysseus1980 wrote:
Also Britain could develop an ACLM of its own, RR had several small jet engines to power it in 1960's.
Yes, but that gets expensive, which is the problem with so many of the UK strategic programs. They just don't have the sheer piles of money that the US threw around.

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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Some Thoughts about What If British AircraftsPosted: December 27th, 2013, 4:26 am
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Blue Steel Mk2 would have a range about 430-440km, so this mean that a longer range Mk3 perhaps follow later.


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