Scottish Defence Force 2014

As you people know Scotland may be independence next year.
with new country, there will be a new army.

Well ....... I can't sleep, the idea is just keep running in my head.
This is my proposal:

Scottish Defence Force
Royal Scottish Navy
The main task or RSN is to protect the Fishery, North Sea Oil platforms and UN mission.

Type 23 Frigate 1 ship for ASW and oversea deployment.
River class OPV 1 ship + 2 more order for Maritime patrol
Hunt Class MCV 2 ships for Mine warfare & Maritime patrol

There will be no Marine Commando's, it is just too expensive to maintain.

Royal Scottish Air Force
Although Scotland is a peace loving socialist country, other “PEACE” loving socialist..... The Russians is coming back for not so friendly visits. The last couple year the Russian is very busy with testing RAF Northern defence capability. The RSAF will have to be a fighting air force like the Denmark and Sweden and not like some people who want RSAF to more like the Irish Air Corps, only consist of transport fix-wing and rotor wing aircraft. Unlike the RAF, I don't think that RSAF will be deploy combat mission to oversea theaters, except for helicopters to support the Army.

Fixed wing fleet:
Eurofighter Typhoon fighters (12 Aircrafts) Multi-Roll air defence fighter
EADS CASA C-295MPA – 4 Aircrafts for Maritime Patrol & Anti Submarine Warfare
EADS CASA C-295 – 2 Aircrafts for Transport
Bae 125 - 1 aircraft for VIP Transport
Britten-Norman Defender - 1 aircraft for reconnaissance and patrol

Rotor wing fleet
Agusta Westland Lynx HMA8 – 2 for Maritime Helicopter support
Agusta Westland AW139 - 6 for troop transport & 4 for Search and Rescue
Eurocopter EC-135 – 2 for Light utility & Scouts & 2 for Police Air Support Unit

SAM Squadron – Rapier SAM for Airfield defence.

The training will be done in combination with the RAF, although the pilot cadet selection will be done in Scotland. The selection will be outsourced to private company.

Scottish Army
Scottish Army will be the largest part of the Defence force, the primary roles of defending the state and internal security within the state. Scottish army will also participates in UN mission or European Union Battlegroups. Unlike the British Army, Scottish army will be much lighter and less heavier armored. There will be more orientated for peacekeeping mission oversea.

Infantry Corps
Regular Units
Scottish Commando Regiment - Special force of SDF, it will be very small one.

Royal Regiment of Scotland
1st Battalion – Royal Scots Borderers (Light Infantry)
2nd Battalion – Royal Highland Fusiliers (Light Infantry)
3rd Battalion – Black Watch (Light Infantry)
4th Battalion – Highlanders (Armoured Infantry) – Cougar Mastiff IMV
5th Battalion – Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders (Air Assault)

Territorial Units
6th Battalion – 52nd Lowland (Light Infantry)
7th Battalion – 51st Highland (Light Infantry)

Calvary Corps
Regular Units
Royal Scots Dragoon Guard - ASCOD
Royal Scots Grey Regiment - Viking

Territorial Units
Queen's Own Yeomanry - Viking

Artillery Corps
Regular Units
19th Regiment Royal Artillery – L118 Light Gun
40th Regiment Royal Artillery – L118 Light Gun

Territorial Units
105th Regiment Royal Artillery – L118 Light Gun

Engineer Corps
General Service Corps
32 (Scottish) Signal Regiment
Scottish Transport Regiment
Medical Service Regiment
Royal Scottish Military Police

Please join in with this topic.

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Darthpanda,
A couple of alternatives:
1) A republican Scotland without a royal sovereign. In this case you would need to drop "Royal" from the service and regiment titles.
2) A return to pre-1707 Act of Union practice where the two independent countries share a common sovereign. This seems to the model you assume in your proposal.
3) Independence with the Scots crowing their own sovereign. Your proposal works for this as well--and you might get to fight the War of Scottish Succession as well.
4) An Austro-Hungarian model where there were independent civil governments for the Austrian and Hungarian portions of the empire, but a combined foreign and defense policy establishment for the whole empire. This also produced distinct Germanic and Hungarian units, but they all answered to the same high command and the same sovereign.

On another note, I was hoping that some of the Scottish regiments would be re-established, not just have battalions allocated to carry on disestablished regiments traditions. If you can't see the need for re-establishing a selection of historic regiments, could you at least establish a Lowlands and a Highlands regiments?

Well, with the information we have, Scotland will not be a republic.
re-establishment of old regiment will take some time and I think 7 Infantry Battalion is large enough for Scotland, Ireland only have 6.

From the BBC Website today.

Quote:

8) What would the Scottish Army look like?

Scotland would have an armed forces of a configuration similar to those of nations such as Norway, Denmark or Sweden, says the SNP.

"We would retain all the military bases in Scotland at the point we become independent. The big difference is that we would not have nuclear weapons, allowing us to divert the money currently spent by the UK, perhaps as much as £250m each year, to other, more useful projects."

"Scotland could focus primarily on securing its territory, compared to the United Kingdom approach of having capacity to conduct overseas wars," the 2009 white paper says.

It says Scotland would take part in peacekeeping and disaster relief.

The SNP's long-standing policy has been not to join Nato. However, the party's leadership is believed to be reconsidering this stance.

Scotland's First Minister Alex Salmond says a "Scottish Defence Force" under an independent Scotland would comprise one naval base (Faslane without Trident), one air base and one mobile armed brigade.

UK armed forces personnel could be given some kind of option on terms of joining the new service.

Mr Salmond suggests the SDF set-up is based on the outcome of the UK defence review (which opponents say is odd, given the SNP's previous campaign to retain all three of Scotland's air force bases).

UK Defence Secretary Phillip Hammond says taking British military units into an SDF is "laughable".

Scottish soldiers in Basra Alex Salmond said a Scottish army would not have participated in the war in Iraq
Former SAS deputy commander Clive Fairweather says an independent Scotland would need its own SAS-style squadron, comprising 75 members and taking three years to set up at a cost of £10m. Oil platforms, he argues, are key terrorist targets.

One model of a slimmed-down Scots military operation, devised by Stuart Crawford, a retired lieutenant colonel in the Royal Tank Regiment, and economist Richard Marsh, suggests Scotland could defend itself with a slimmed down military, making savings worth about £1.3bn, with:

• Army one-third size of Denmark

• Navy of about 20 to 25 ships

• An air force of about 60 aircraft, but no Typhoon or Tornado fast jets

• One HQ and two brigades, but no tanks or heavy artillery

• Personnel of between 10,000 to 12,000

Professor Hew Strachan of Oxford University, a military historian and adviser to the Ministry of Defence (MoD), says Scots may wish to leave and join the armed forces in the rest of the UK.

He previously said: "Like New Zealanders who opt to serve in the Australian air force or the British Royal Air Force, or Irishmen who want to serve in the regiments of the British Army, many Scots might find their ambitions better fulfilled in the rump of the British army and so make the move out of Scottish regiments."

Alex Salmond previously told the BBC Politics Show in May 2011 his government would be prepared to share military facilities with the rest of Britain under independence.

He said: "An independent country has its own foreign policy. There's no way on earth that Scotland would ever have participated as an independent country in the illegal war in Iraq.

"That stresses why you've got to have the ability and determination in order to chart your own way in the world so that you don't get entangled into illegal and disastrous international conflicts.

"Many, many countries in the world share military facilities with friendly neighbours and there's absolutely no reason why Scotland wouldn't be prepared to do that."

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Well my idea is not far from the SNP then, but I do think the Scottish Air Force will need fighters because of the Russian.
If Scotland want to join NATO, the Airspace between Iceland an main land Europe must keep open, that meant RSAF must have Air to air capability.
Perhaps RAF can maintain the air defence until Scotland buy there own aircraft, something like the Gripen NG.
My proposal for the Scottish Army only have unit transfer from the British Army, that is about 10 battalions.
Danish Army has about 10 battalions, so it is about the same size.

I sincerely doubt they'd be able to support that much. Economically they're in the same league as Ireland so that's what I'd base them on.
The model Hood posted seems to me to be the most realistic one.
True, they may need fast jets but I can't see how they can afford to operate them in useful numbers without making serious cuts somewhere else.
Using the Danish Army as a base doesn't seem like a good idea since it's geared entirely for expeditionary operations and at 10.500 active personnel it'll take up almost 90% of the manpower what Scotland can realistically afford to field.

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Source Materiel is always welcome.

A Navy of 20-25 ships might be ambitious, even with some ex-RN buys. Even so, the RSN could be bigger than the RN!!
I don't think fast jets are needed and it seems likely that the RAF radar posts and airfields will be maintained as a lucrative defence deal for Northern aerial defence. I read somewhere the other day that Hawks (or equivalent) might be the best fast aircraft for the RSAF but by 2016 probably the BAE Hawk line will be closed. More likely is a raft of ex-British kit as the government trims the forces even more.

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Hood's Worklist
English Electric Canberra FD
Interwar RN Capital Ships
Super-Darings
Never-Were British Aircraft

they loose a third of 105 on independence as 206btry is from Northern Ireland

SFPS has 2 OPV's both built in Poland
why should half the OPV fleet go to Scotland.
BTW how can A&S Hldrs be air assault without a viable helicopter fleet

Have seen on another forum they want a command/transport ship like one of the LPD's

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well the official white paper says:
A budget of 2.5 billion pounds ( 3 billion euro / 4 billion USD )

Defence capabilities at the point of independence

Maritime forces
One naval squadron to secure Scotland's maritime interests and Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) and contribute to joint capability with partners in Scotland's geographical neighbourhood, consisting of:

•two frigates from the Royal Navy's current fleet
•a command platform for naval operations and development of specialist marine capabilities (from the Royal Navy's current fleet, following adaptation)
•four mine counter measure vessels from the Royal Navy's current fleet
•two offshore patrol vessels (OPVs) to provide security for the 200 nautical mile Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ). However, as the Royal Navy only has four OPVs currently[263], a longer lead time for procurement might be necessary
•four to six patrol boats from the Royal Navy's current fleet, capable of operating in coastal waters, providing fleet protection and also contributing to securing borders
•auxiliary support ships (providing support to vessels on operations), which could be secured on a shared basis initially with the rest of the UK

These arrangements will require around 2,000 regular and at least 200 reserve personnel.

Land forces
An army HQ function and an all-arms brigade, with three infantry/marine units, equipped initially from a negotiated share of current UK assets, and supported by:

•a deployable Brigade HQ
•two light armoured reconnaissance units
•two light artillery units
•one engineer unit deploying a range of equipment for bridging, mine clearance and engineering functions
•one aviation unit operating six helicopters for reconnaissance and liaison
•two communication units
•one transport unit
•one logistics unit
•one medical unit

Special forces, explosives and ordnance disposal teams will bring the total to around 3,500 regular and at least 1,200 reserve personnel.

Air forces
Key elements of air forces in place at independence, equipped initially from a negotiated share of current UK assets, will secure core tasks, principally the ability to police Scotland's airspace, within NATO.

•an Air Force HQ function (with staff embedded within NATO structures)
•Scotland will remain part of NATO's integrated Air Command and Control (AC2) system, initially through agreement with allies to maintain the current arrangements while Scotland establishes and develops our own AC2 personnel and facility within Scotland within five years of independence
•a Quick Reaction Alert (QRA) squadron incorporating a minimum of 12 Typhoon jets based at Lossiemouth
•a tactical air transport squadron, including around six Hercules C130J aircraft, and a helicopter squadron
•flight training through joint arrangements with allies

In total this would require around 2,000 regular personnel and around 300 reserve personnel.

Civilian support
In addition to military capability following a vote for independence, the Scottish Government will establish core government capacity for defence functions, such as strategic planning, oversight and policy functions for defence and security. Given the importance of ongoing shared security interests between Scotland and the rest of the UK, we will ensure a partnership approach during the period of transition to independence.
Following a vote for independence, priorities for the Scottish Government capacity dealing with defence will be planning for the strategic security review to be carried out by the first Scottish Parliament following independence, based on the most recent UK National Risk Assessment and input from Scottish experts and academic institutions.

Defence capabilities five years after independence Further development of Scotland's defence and security capabilities will be decided following the strategic review of security undertaken by the first elected Parliament and government of an independent Scotland.
However the current Scottish Government believes that the following elements should be prioritised for delivery as early as possible in the first five years following independence, building on the forces in place at independence:

Maritime forces
A second naval squadron to contribute to NATO and other operations outside home waters, incorporating the naval command platform, and a further two frigates with tanker and support ship capacity.
Overall the model would involve around 2,400 regular and at least 270 reserve personnel. While most of the personnel would be required by the five year point, this model envisages increases continuing through the first ten years following independence (due to procurement of new Scottish naval vessels).

Land forces
Developing the All Arms brigade's capabilities to include:

•increases to strengths of the three infantry battalions (to a combined total of 1,500 regular and 300 reserve personnel)
•upgrading of the light armour, artillery, aviation and medical units
•increasing the strength of the special forces unit
•increasing the number of personnel deployed to conflict prevention, disarmament and defence diplomacy

Overall, this would entail an increase in numbers, over the years following independence, to around 4,700 regular and at least 1,110 reserve personnel.

Air forces
Increasing the fast jet fleet of Typhoons potentially up to 16 aircraft which would enable Scotland to contribute to alliance operations overseas.
Increasing the Scottish contribution to capabilities for air defence, as part of an integrated system within NATO.
At present, the UK has no maritime patrol aircraft. During this period options for procurement will be taken forward and airborne maritime patrol capability delivered. A detailed specification of requirement will be developed as a priority and final numbers of aircraft required will depend on this. However, the numbers maintained by comparable nations suggests a potential fleet of four.
Development across all of those areas would entail an overall increase in numbers to around 3,250 regular and at least 300 reserve personnel.

Defence capabilities after 10 years
This Government plans that, 10 years after independence, Scotland will have a total of 15,000 regular and 5,000 reserve personnel across land, air and maritime forces.

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Oke, I'm not far from the target with the land and Air forces.
But the Royal Scottish Navy will be much bigger than the Royal Navy.

Shipbucket

Scottish Defence Force 2014

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