Shipbucket

thats a good boy

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Shipbucket mainsite, aka "The Archive"
New AU project "Aravala"

Most problems have been already pointed out by Acelanceloet, so I'm not going to repeat all of it.
That said, there is still problem with shading - for example shadow made by upper decks is signalled only by single dark line, not by shadowing whole wall below. Also, while SAM's should be indeed pointed upwards, ASRoc and torpedo should point to the side, unless they're launched from VLS (and these aren't).
Personally I see the location of 120mm gun somewhat unusual (Perry class has the 76mm on top of superstructure, but there it has relatively clear firing arc in most directions, which can't be said about Your design).
As for the issue of liferafts, mind that emergencies don't happen only in WW3 in the middle of North Atlantic. There might be simply a collision with some other vessel or navigational error that may lead to need of abandoning the ship.
Still, it's a quite nice beginning and certainly an improvement over Your previous work.

I do not appreciate the condescension, especially from someone who is supposed to be an official representative of the site.

It's rather unprofessional. :\
It's a aesthetic style choice, which as far as I'm aware as long as you use proper scaling for items such as missiles, how it's actually drawn matters little. While I don't expect this to be uploaded to the main site, of course, I do appreciate being able to take artistic liberty with minor details such as railings and shading that make the ship have a bit of pep. The missiles were drawn out of scale (in-scale with the actual ship) because I preferred to use a proper scale as having them on the ship makes it look Very Strange as you can see. That's been corrected, of course, so there are no significantly glaring issues.

No doubt Psilander's Marinen ships wouldn't be on the main site if they didn't conform to SB standards.

Guns, like ASROCs and SVTTs, are anachronisms. Perry was originally not going to have a gun, and they intended to remove the 76mm at one point, and certainly a little 3" is not sufficient to do serious damage to anything bigger than a PT boat. It mostly adds charm and character to the ship while decreasing utility. Certainly the most capable general purpose escort would be one with either Mk 13s and Mk 22s single arms if it is pre-VLS, or nothing but VLS and a handful of large caliber CIWS (or SeaRAM), and both with hangars for ASW helicopters. It would also be very boring and not very fun, unlike my escort.

re: rafts Then you're going to end up like Belknap and all the liferafts will burn anyway because a Kitty Hawk just rolled over your boat. Short of the keel breaking or serious battle damage, there are extremely few areas where the ship is going to be so badly hurt that it will require abandonment, especially while alone. If she isn't burning or listing, you have plenty of time to toss the liferafts overboard, otherwise she's dead and so are you.

Not even Stark needed to break out the liferafts and she suffered serious battle damage from a pair of anti-shipping missiles, but she still managed to limp away under her own power. If you get caught up on a reef or something, there's no rush.

That said I can move the SVTT further astern, add rafts where they are, put some rafts on the rails, and swap the gun and Mk 13 positions, and return the fire control systems to their original places. That should satisfy all complaints except the propeller, which I'm just going to assume is magical and the ship manages a CPP with a conventional steam turbine.

Then we just have a Brooke with a slightly meaner 5" and some new electronics.

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The Chinese people are not to be cowed by U.S. atomic blackmail. Our country has a population of 600 million and an area of 9.6 [million sq. km]. The United States cannot annihilate the Chinese nation with its small stack of atom bombs. Even if the U.S. atom bombs were so powerful that, when dropped on China, they would make a hole right through the earth, or even blow it up, that would hardly mean anything to the universe as a whole, though it might be a major event for the solar system.

Don't worry, it was intended with all good spirit This is not "offical" or "professional" institute in the strict sense of the words, but internet community. We allow us the familiarity that such close companionship brings. Ligthening the things up wouldn't be bad for anyone.

carry on.

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Shipbucket mainsite, aka "The Archive"
New AU project "Aravala"

Then I misunderstood, apologies.

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The Chinese people are not to be cowed by U.S. atomic blackmail. Our country has a population of 600 million and an area of 9.6 [million sq. km]. The United States cannot annihilate the Chinese nation with its small stack of atom bombs. Even if the U.S. atom bombs were so powerful that, when dropped on China, they would make a hole right through the earth, or even blow it up, that would hardly mean anything to the universe as a whole, though it might be a major event for the solar system.

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The Chinese people are not to be cowed by U.S. atomic blackmail. Our country has a population of 600 million and an area of 9.6 [million sq. km]. The United States cannot annihilate the Chinese nation with its small stack of atom bombs. Even if the U.S. atom bombs were so powerful that, when dropped on China, they would make a hole right through the earth, or even blow it up, that would hardly mean anything to the universe as a whole, though it might be a major event for the solar system.

the Mk 13 was chosen to be drawn without the missiles on the rail because if the Mk 13 is to scale, and the missiles are not, it looked quite silly. you are obviously of the same opinion, so why have you placed the missile back on the launcher?
psilander is the one exception to the shading rules, because he is very long with us and was around drawing that style even before shipbucket itself emerged. he is also the ONLY exception ever made. the style has evolved, but that shading is no longer shipbucket scale.
you are right that psilanders work does not follow sb rules, and there has been some discussion about this, but in fact they don't conform sb standards.

perry was always going to have an gun, albeit an smaller one (35mm oto melara/bofors GDM-C) with the oto 76 as backup option. the backup option was chosen when the ship was redesigned with the 2 helicopters on board. my drawings of the early concepts are in the never build section of the main site.
an 127mm cannon cannot do any more damage then an 76mm can do. yeah, they make bigger holes, but the fact remains that against big surface ships, guns aren't that useful.

you know that you can fix your rafts simply by making the rail for them running over the railing on your walkway, right? I also completely disagree with your asumptions about the possibilities of liferafts.
and if you are stuck on a reef and you need to abandon ship, there might be no need to rush, but when you are on a sinking ship I still would not want to have to throw the liferafts overboard manually (for which you need a few men) if you can avoid it by simply putting them on a rail, where you have to cut an rope and they roll into the water, like is done on about any ship I can think of.
(and you have fixed it in your last update. that's much better)

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Drawings are credited with J.Scholtens
I ask of you to prove me wrong. Not say I am wrong, but prove it, because then I will have learned something new.
Shipbucket Wiki admin

Just so I have this right, in your Navy it's preferable to close basically on top of an enemy submarine well inside its weapons range and use SVTT instead of fire on it dozens of miles away from relative safety? This is the exact opposite logic of real life ASW tactics.

I get your helos are the primary ASW weapon, but if you are going to have three tiers of ASW weapons you should have a tactically sound reasoning for them.

1) Mmk I deleted one Panther.
2) Ok, done.
3) I suppose I can just put it where SLQ-32 was?
4) Done.
5) I'm not sure how to go about this without redrawing the whole hull to make it look good, but I added a bit of height.


1) Because it makes it look like an armed warship.

2) A 35mm is not a main gun, it's at best a CIWS, and considering the GDM turret's high angle capability it likely would have precluding mounting a Phalanx system. 2.2" is about as small as it gets before we cross the line from "main gun" to "air defence".

3) Sure it can, besides, who said anything about "big surface ships"? 5" has better fusing, longer range, more fragmentation, high throw weight, etc. that lets it be extremely effective against boghammars and other small craft using airburst ammunition. If you see a big surface ship in this thing, you run away, or you shoot a Harpoon at it.

4) If you looked closer at the images before, the shading would have made it clear they were flush with the walkway actually. I was merely being facetious with my comment of "throwing the rafts down", something a few people took seriously and ran with for whatever reason. I assumed the double shading under the rafts made it clear. I apologise for this oversight and in the future I will make it absolutely clear with very large letters and bold font so that I amn't misunderstood.

re: sinking randomly; A sinking ship is something that very, very, very rarely happens except in a time of war, of course. Especially in deep water areas where life jackets are insufficient to forestall inevitable death. There is no war but The Final War (previously: The Atomic War) in Gallaverse, so this precludes the sinking of warships. Praying Mantis wasn't a NATO operation after all; and Samuel B. Roberts and Stark both made it home in one piece after sustaining significant damage. The only other time I can think of it happening is possibly running into an underwater mountain or an iceberg, but neither of those are areas where this destroyer is intended to operate.

The majority of US ships lost otherwise post-WW2 were sunk while operating in conjunction with a naval fleet, or operating in shallow waters such as littorals or harbours. The rest were submarines, and there are no life rafts on submarines.

The Falkands might count, but that was in conjunction with a carrier battle group and I'm sure a fair number of sailors had vests. The Belgrano does not, though. That just wasn't cricket.
No, in fact that's the exact opposite of what I said. ASROC was speaking in relation to SVTT and the greater mission of the destroyer.

This destroyer's purpose is to escort merchant convoys across the North Atlantic and protect them from hostile nuclear fast attack submarines, requiring a greater radius of action around the vessel than can be covered by SVTT and a faster response time than a ASW helicopter to properly provide mutual support for the other destroyers providing escort in the NATO Megaconvoy and merchantmen transporting Our Brave Boys (including such hard military men as Major Dutch Schaefer and Sgt. Rex Power Colt (Mark IV style)) from the USA to fight The Red Menace.

Firing two or three ASROCs at a hostile nuclear submarine will either kill it, or force it to evade hard enough to ruin any chance of hitting the surface ship once the convoy undergoes evasive maneuvering. ASROC is a terminal defence weapon for the convoy area, SVTT is for the specific ship area, the helicopter is still the primary weapon.

It's the difference between a fighter BARCAP, an SM-2, and a Phalanx. On a much smaller scale. And the targets fly through water. And they're all B-2s with nuclear Vulcan cannons. That's the closest analogy I can put it in.

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The Chinese people are not to be cowed by U.S. atomic blackmail. Our country has a population of 600 million and an area of 9.6 [million sq. km]. The United States cannot annihilate the Chinese nation with its small stack of atom bombs. Even if the U.S. atom bombs were so powerful that, when dropped on China, they would make a hole right through the earth, or even blow it up, that would hardly mean anything to the universe as a whole, though it might be a major event for the solar system.