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Blackbuck
Post subject: Re: Polish WingsPosted: October 29th, 2013, 2:57 pm
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Awesome, one of my favourite light helicopters. Any chance of seeing the UAV version at some point?

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Cplnew83
Post subject: Re: Polish WingsPosted: October 29th, 2013, 3:14 pm
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The SW-4 SOLO ? It will be really difficult to render properly cause of the overall black livery. But if you want to try, please feel free.

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eswube
Post subject: Re: Polish WingsPosted: October 29th, 2013, 4:04 pm
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Gee... weird... I really don't remember asking anyone to draw this. (and am very unhappy to see this :( )
Even more I don't remember SW-4 being used by Polish Military Aviation in the 1930s.
:evil: :x


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Rhade
Post subject: Re: Polish WingsPosted: October 29th, 2013, 4:29 pm
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I presume good intentions but you mess with chronology Cplnew83.

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Rhade
Post subject: Re: Polish WingsPosted: November 3rd, 2013, 11:50 pm
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Ok lads, because my hospital stay in past weeks we have some big delay in chapters upload. Today I start to post some planes and there will be large number of designs in near future, to the end of the month all Chapters will be posted here and I will close part of 1917-1939. Of course we will move to the next Chapters. ;)

As I made some mistakes with scaling on couple of planes they will be posted in monday ( need just a couple of h, some polish and fixes and I post update ) also some early designs will be fixed but nothing serious. I move too fast for some other planes and just don't notice some mistakes I done, I will fix this pretty fast. The Subchapter of P.7 will be posted in Wednesday so stay tune.

Polish military aircraft 1930-1933

Training Aircraft

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Lublin R.XIV was a derivative of R.X prototype of observation aircraft, but adapted to combat (esp. fighter) traini ng purposes. Prototype was flown in 1930 and 14 more aircraft were produced. They were used mostly in schools and in t raining squadron of the 2 Pulk Lotniczy, but occassionaly they were also attached to front-line fighter squadrons. Whi le a decent aircraft in itself, it proved to be totally unsuited to a role of fighter trainer, and it's numbers were s lowly decreasing, so by 1939 only 3 were left in service.

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Bartel BM-6 was a prototype of a fighter-trainer, first flown in 1930. Two prototypes were made, and 23 serial aircraft were ordered, but after disastrous fire in factory the order was cancelled.

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PWS-14, first flown in june 1933, was a follow-on design to PWS-12 for intermediate training. It was quickly moved into production, with 20 (including prototype) being made. They were mostly attached to schools at Dęblin and Grudziądz, where they remained in service for the rest of pre-war period.

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PWS-16 was further development of PWS-12/-14 design line. It was first flown in late 1933 and entered production early next year, but due to troubles with engine deliveries it was concluded only in 1935, with 20 aircraft being delivered to Dęblin and Grudziądz schools. In early 1936 it's further refinement, the PWS-16bis was flown, with 20 of them being delivered to Dęblin, Grudziądz and Bydgoszcz schools. 5 PWS-16bis aircraft were sold to Bulgaria in 1936.

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In early 1936 it's further refinement, the PWS-16bis was flown, with 20 of them being delivered to Dęblin, Grudziądz and Bydgoszcz schools. 5 PWS-16bis aircraft were sold to Bulgaria in 1936.

Fighters

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Although the advanced, all metal PZL fighters were destined to become mainstay of Polish fighter force, a stop-gap plane was needed before Puławski's designs will reach necessary maturity. To that purpose, simpler and more conventional (of mixed construction) PWS-10 was designed. Prototype was first flown in march 1930 and after necessary trials ordered for production. In 1931-1932 total of 80 were produced, equipping fighter squadrons of 1, 3 and 4 Pułk Lotniczy, as well as several training units. As an interim plane, it was phased-out relatively quickly - from around 1933 being moved to training and storage. 20 of these aircraft were in late 1936 sold to Spanish Nationalists (using cover of Honduras) who used them in fighter school in Copero near Seville.

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PWS-15 Already in 1930 PWS converted single aircraft into biplane (first flown in early 1931), which proved to have better vertical speed and maneuverability at a small cost in horizontal speed. Manufacturer, afraid of potential organizational complications had the military decided to change order (from monoplane to biplane) decided to re-convert the aircraft and to hide results of trials from the military.

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After the successful trials of PZL P.1, a decision was made to build a series of several more sophisticated planes to be tested with various engines. First two of them (one for static tests and one flying), with Gnome-Rhône 9Aa Jupiter engines were designated PZL P.6 and first flown in august 1930. Plane was exhibited at 1930 Le Bourget where it was met with great interest and year later it also took part - with significant success - in National Air Races in Cleveland (flown by Bolesław Orliński). Although series production was suggested, crash of the prototype on 12 october 1931 led to decision to concentrate on P.7.

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Alongside radial-engined P.6 and P.7, two prototypes with inline-engines were made, named P.8/I and P.8/II - powered by Hispano-Suiza 12Mc and Lorraine 12H Petrel engines respectively. They were both flown in the second half of 1931, but despite promising results, their development was cut after both planes crash-landed within a day of each (on 20 and 21 july 1932).

Line Aircraft (Bomber-Reconnaissance)

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PWS-19 In the end of 1920s it was clear that the service life of Potez and Breguet aircraft used by Polish Military Aviation must end sooner rather than later and therefore a search for replacement begun. PWS responded with relatively advanced high-wing monoplane PWS-19, first flown in september 1931. After a series of trials the prototype returned to factory for modernization, that ended with even more refined aerodynamics. Unfortunately in march 1933 it crashed, killing one of the crew and it's development was cancelled in favor of more advanced PZL.23 Karaś.

Accompanying Aircraft (Observation)

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Because the results of the first contest for observation aircraft (PWS-5 and Lublin R.X) were somewhat disappointing, military aviation continued search for suitable aicraft of that category, leading to second contest in 1931. PZL presented Ł.2 aircraft, flown already in 1930, but bit too late for previous contest, yet considered in a way it's interim winner, with 60 planes being ordered, although only 31 eventually produced. They equipped two squadrons and serveral platoons (flights) in two other squadrons. Already from 1932 they were gradually transferred to training units, and by 1935 scrapped.
Between february and may 1931 Stanisław Skarżyński (who later become famous for his trans-Atlantic flight) and Andrzej Markiewicz made on Ł.2 a flight around Africa (25050 kilometers: Warsaw, Belgrade, Athens, Cairo, Khartoum, Kisumu, Abercon, Elisabethville, Luebo, Léopoldville, Lagos, Abidjan, Bamako, Dakar, Port Etienne, Agadir, Villa Cisneros, Casablanca, Alicante, Paris, Warsaw).

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Another entry to that contest was PWS-6, which although considered unsuited to an observation role, eventually become predecessor of a several successful trainers.

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Lublin R.XIII was a development of unsuccessful Lublin R.X observation plane, created for the 1931 contest. It was considered the best of available options and ordered for production. Initial series of 49 R.XIII planes was made in 19 32, initially named R.XIIIA, although quickly certain improvements made, leading to the-redesignation of the rest of t he series to R.XIIIB. Several R.XIIIB's were converted to liason duties with passenger seat instead of gun turret and named R.XIIIS (for Sztabowy - Staff). Several more of them were converted to blind-flying training (nicknamed Slepak - "slepy" means "blind"). One of R.XIIIB's was heavily modified (in fact, almost completely rebuilt) for long-range fli ghts as R.XIIIDr (even though "D" could suggest coming from R.XIIID it was actually R.XIIIB, "r" stood for rajdowy - r ally/raid) and named Blekitny Ptak (Blue Bird). It was used for an attempt of flight to Australia by cpt. Karpinski an d engineer Rogalski (already known from their flights on R.X), but after flying 11 138 kilometers (between 21 october and 10 november 1935: Warsaw-Bucurest-Istanbul-Adana-Aleppo-Baghdad-Bushehr-Karachi-Jodhpur-Allahabad-Calcutta-Akyab-R angoon-Bangkok-Kohlak) the plane crashed on muddy airfield in Thailand. 31 Also, in 1932 first prototype of R.XIII was equipped with V-tail invented by Jerzy Rudlicki (and already tested on Hanriot 28) and named Lublin R.XIX. Although trials were successful, then-air force commander gen. Rayski disliked the fact that it wasn't his initiative and ordered cancellation of further works. 32 In 1933-1934 these were followed by series of 48 R.XIIIC with improved equipment and Townend ring on the engine. Se veral R.XIIIC's were converted to Holowniczy or Holówka standard with equipment to tow three gliders. 33 Next version - and the most produced, was Lublin R.XIIID, 95 of which were produced in 1934-1935. They had redesign ed front part of the fuselage and further modified equipment. 34 Already around 1934-1935 air force was seeking a replacement of R.XIII. Initially effort was concentrated on buildi ng heavily redesigned derivative of R.XIII with new Mors engines. Delays with the engine led to creation of R.XIIIE pr ototype with GR 7K Titan engine, but by the time of it's trials the Mors was ready and works proceeded no further. Wan ted engine was installed on R.XIIIF which was then produced in series of 50 (although further problems with the engine caused installation of Wright J-5 engines on some planes). Because also the plane itself had certain faults, military authorities used it as a pretext to force the ZMPL works into bankruptcy (by cancelling already partially fulfilled o rder) and forced nationalization (as Lubelska Wytwórnia Samolotów - LWS), which completed the series. Eventually, due to technical issues R.XIIIF's were used only as trainers. In late 1938 one R.XIIIF (with military markings) was conver ted into meteorological research aircraft for PLL LOT, named Aerolog. 35 R.XIII's were used by all 18 accompanying (observation) squadrons, as well as regimental training squadrons and fli ght schools. In the late 1930s they were becoming somewhat outdated and were to be gradually replaced by more modern d esigns, though they still equipped 7 squadrons (of the 12 observation squadrons then in existence). Although the conce pt according to which they were made was not without merits - as evidenced by service of L-4's, Fi-156 and Austers dur ing WW2 and by helicopters ever since - during the Polish Campaign of 1939 (during which they flew 581 sorties), when they were faced with German air superiority, they become an easy prey for Messerschmitts, with 40 being lost. 17 (some sources say 22) planes were evacuated to Romania which used them as trainers until 1944.

Maritime Aircraft

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In 1930 Navy requested from PZL several designs of naval aircraft for various tasks. Among prepared desings was a training flying boat PZL-12 designed by Zygmunt Puławski (initially as designers' private venture). During one of the first flights in march 1931 the plane, flown by it's designer crashed in Warsaw and Puławski died from wounds.

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Besides the land versions, Lublin R.XIII was also built in floatplane versions: R.XIIIbis Hydro (3 planes in 1932), R.XIIIter Hydro (10 planes in 1934) and R.XIIIG (7 planes in 1935). They were used by Morski Dywizjon Lotniczy mostly as trainers, and to lesser extent as patrol planes.

Miscellanous Aircraft

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Lublin R.XVI was a prototype passenger plane (described already on page 3 of this thread). Although unsuccessfull with finding orders from airlines, it was a basis for aero-ambulance airplane Lublin R.XVIb, 6 of which were made in 1933 for use by specialized detachments of air regiments (in support of public health service), where they initially carried dual civilian and military registrations (eventually only military ones). They remained in service until 1939.

Unbuilt Aircraft (selected)

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Lublin R.XV of 1930 was proposed derivative of Lublin R.X for army cooperation duties, with new foldable wing. Also , a floatplane version was considered.

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PZL P.2 of 1930 was a project of fighter based on P.1, but with heavy and drag-inducing struts replaced by elastic wires.

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PZL-8 was one of several designs made at Navy's request in 1930. It was a small training and liason floatplane based on PZL-5 sports plane. Although not ordered by Navy, it was offered by PZL on open market until mid-1930s.

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PZL-9 was a result of the same request as PZL-8 and PZL-12, but was floatplane adaptation of PZL Ł.2.

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Also in 1930 PWS proposed a design of small observation/liason/training floatplane for Riverine Flotilla, designated PWS-60.

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Together with PWS-60, a heavier bomber-reconnaissance (potentially also torpedo) floatplane PWS-61 was proposed.

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In early 1931 PZL prepared a design of observation/patrol seaplane PZL-15 of very original (semi-twin-boom) arrangement, armed with 3 machine guns (2 forward and 1 observers).

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Although Navy didn't decided to order any of the previous designs of seaplanes from PWS nor PZL, it requested a project of heavy "destroyer" (bomber/torpedo) seaplane. PWS's project, designated PWS-62, was ready in spring 1931 - plane was to be armed with up to 5 machine guns and 1200 kilograms of ordnance. Eventually it lost, however, to Lublin R.XX.

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PZL's response to Navy's request for heavy combat seaplane was twin-boom PZL-18, armed with 5 machine guns and up to 2 torpedoes in bomb bay. Like PWS-62 it was unsuccessful in it's bid.

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PZL-3 was designed by Władysław Zalewski as a follow-on to his earlier CWL WZ-IX Pteranodon, but somewhat larger, with four engines in double tandem arrangement, all-metal construction and wingspan of 36 meters.

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In the early 1930s Poland's military aviation was seeking a replacement for the Fokker F.VII bombers. First considered option was a bomber conversion of PZL-4 passenger aircraft, but because PZL designers found out it would necessitate practically new fuselage, they suggested a wholly new aircraft, designated PZL-10. It was supposed to be an all-metal, twin-engined (PZL-Bristol Jupiter VIIF) monoplane bomber capable of carrying 1500kg of bombs.
Note: drawing below is based on hypotethical reconstruction published at: Klaudiusz Klobuch, Geneza lotniczego września, Warszawa 2009.

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Polish Military Aviation's only night-fighter squadron, 113 Eskadra Myśliwska in late 1920s and early 1930s was using planes completely unsuitable for it's role, namely Breguet XIX, Potez XXV and PWS-10. To rectify this situation PWS prepared in 1932 a design of heavy, twin-seat night and escort fighter PWS-17M2, modelled on larger bomber-reconnaissance PWS-19. Although a promising design, it met with completely no interest from the military authorities.

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Also in 1932 PWS presented a design of potential replacement for PWS-10 and competition to P.7. Designated PWS Z-17 Sęp I (Vulture 1, "Z" stood for it's designer August Zdaniewski), it was characterized by unusual forward-swept wing and cockpit positioned in front of the wing. Although never built, it made a basis for further designs.

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Last edited by Rhade on January 17th, 2016, 5:15 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Polish WingsPosted: November 4th, 2013, 12:20 am
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nice addition.

but see if you can spot it:

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/Rhadek/Wings/pzl_p.6.png
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/Rhadek/W ... l_p-12.png


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Rhade
Post subject: Re: Polish WingsPosted: November 4th, 2013, 12:28 am
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Yeah I know, funny thing that I upload clean versions before I post the Chapter but majhost still show the old one.

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eswube
Post subject: Re: Polish WingsPosted: November 4th, 2013, 5:20 am
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Rhade
Check Your email. :? :roll:

EDIT: Search tags for the Rhade's post above:

Poland, Bartel BM-6
Poland, PWS-14
Poland, PWS-16
Poland, PWS-10
Poland, PWS-15
Poland, PZL P.6
Poland, PZL P.8
Poland, PWS-19
Poland, PZL Ł.2
Poland, PWS-6
Poland, PZL-12
Poland, Lublin R.XVIb
Poland, PZL P.2
Poland, PZL-8
Poland, PZL-9
Poland, PWS-60
Poland, PWS-61
Poland, PZL-15
Poland, PWS-62
Poland, PZL-18
Poland, PZL-3
Poland, PWS-17M2
Poland, PWS Z-17 Sęp I


Last edited by eswube on January 26th, 2014, 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Hood
Post subject: Re: Polish WingsPosted: November 4th, 2013, 2:43 pm
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Well worth the wait, excellent work all round. I love the way these small aircraft are drawn so well, nice and clear with no clutter. I think we can forgive the odd bit of leftover pink pixel with such great art to look at.

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eswube
Post subject: Re: Polish WingsPosted: November 4th, 2013, 3:46 pm
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Hood
It's not so "worth the wait" when You know what's wrong. :evil:

EDIT: Now that's indeed worth the wait! :D :ugeek:


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