Shipbucket

some information on the flight3 level 2 can be found here, for the ones interested.
http://www.shipbucket.com/forums/viewto ... =13&t=3611

_________________
Drawings are credited with J.Scholtens
I ask of you to prove me wrong. Not say I am wrong, but prove it, because then I will have learned something new.
Shipbucket Wiki admin

Something a bit silly I just had to make:

_________________
USN components, camouflage colors, & reference links (World War II only)

A very cost effective choice there, Colo. One most people never really consider.

_________________
"It is better to type nothing and be assumed an ass, than to type something and remove all doubt." - Me

Agreed, airships are perfect for operating patrols where time on station overrules speed requirements. I myself have been experimenting with various designs of airships both for my AU any personal designs for modern day vessels but it is a little slow going.

_________________
"The first rule is not to lose; The second rule is not to forget the first rule"

It'd be tempting to hang a rather large radar array from such a thing, wouldn't it? Think an arrangement like the AEW Ka-31.

Another addition to the insanity...



I have a really hard time believing this concept is viable in a modern military but I like the idea. A potential military blimp would have to do many things at once to justify its expense and (frankly) dangerous operation. I imagine it would need to function as a combination patrol and AEW airship - something none of the USN blimps ever did. They were either strictly for ASW patrol, or strictly for AEW. I'm not sure combining the two is even possible as shipping a very large, heavy AEW radar antenna basically precludes you from being able to carry ASW gear - and at any rate, North Point has mission-specific AEW fixed-wing aircraft that can fly higher and do a better job than any blimp whose ceiling is around 5,000 feet.

Any thoughts? And any thoughts on the small mods I've made, such as the shrouded propellers, HF dipoles, and MAD birds?

The T class in this post is a large ASW patrol blimp whose additional envelope volume allows it to carry both a towing sonar AND a Mk.46 torpedo. I imagine it could also ship a Penguin missile if required. I'm basically going off what's carried aboard USN shipboard helicopters at this point, keeping in mind the vital weight considerations that come into play with lighter-than-air designs - which have to be very carefully ballasted and trimmed to fly correctly.

Re: the previous and smaller "R" class, I imagine this airship being used strictly as a coastal patrol blimp, whose duties would include ASW, search and rescue, anti-piracy, anti-smuggling, and general "show of force" duties to keep an eye on North Point's thousands of miles of coastline. For that role, I think it makes sense, but in this day and age I also think the risk of airship operations (which from what I have read tended to be fairly dangerous) would probably preclude it from being a viable thing past around 1970...

_________________
USN components, camouflage colors, & reference links (World War II only)

The key danger with airship operations is their vulnerability to weather conditions to a state more severe than aircraft. If you look into the accidents in the 20th Century, the vast majority of them were of ships caught in weather conditions where their size proved a downfall. With modern forecasting abilities, an airship could theoretically be better prepared for such weather and prepare for it either by avoiding the worst of the weather or setting down.

Airships themselves are arguably safer to operate than heavier than air machines. To put it in the words of an airship pilot who's name escapes me; in an aircraft when you loose an engine you're in for a lot of stress and hard work. In an airship when you loose an engine, you have time to make a coffee and relax whilst drifting until you spot a nice place to land".

_________________
"The first rule is not to lose; The second rule is not to forget the first rule"

You're correct on that. I think a case might be growing in my mind in favor of airships for North Point as something other than a thought exercise...

The only problem is that the last airships left USN service in the late 1960s, so I have really NO idea what modern versions would look like... hence my use of the original designs with a few minor updates, but there's no doubt that, had blimps been operated continuously to this day, they'd look markedly different from the 1960s versions.

I took some cues from the MZ-3A (the current modern navy test bed blimp)... such as the shrouded propellers and the covered bow strakes at the front of the envelope. But the MZ-3A is a test bed and nothing more, whereas North Point would need combat-worthy designs. I'll have to see what I can come up with tomorrow, though truth be told I just enjoy modifying real designs for North Point way more than designing new stuff...

_________________
USN components, camouflage colors, & reference links (World War II only)

Well you can always look at some of the other proposed designs for reconnaissance and heavy lift airship designs that exist for some inspiration then look at what you would need to militarise them. Airships are quiet, can loiter for extended periods and in most weather conditions are very stable platforms, making them useful for communications and camera work which both seem to come up frequently in modern proposals. You ideally want to make the ship as independent as possible from ground crew when maneuvering, the Zeppelin NT for instance has a third pivoting engine in the tail that allows it to operate with only three crew on the ground instead of the more usual 18 used for the US Blimps.

Speaking of the NT, it's hybrid semi-rigid design might be worth considering. It has the advantage of improved structural strength, giving points for fixing equipment rather than having it suspended by the envelope and allows for larger designs. Blimps are only really effective with small sizes, too big and you get all sorts of issues.
Then again I may be biased as I've always had an obsession with airships, in particular the Italian Semi-Rigids and of course the DELAG zeppelins.

_________________
"The first rule is not to lose; The second rule is not to forget the first rule"

Hi Colo, denodon,

One other thing that you may want to look at is the aeroscraft stuff - essentially a zeppelin with plumbing rigged to pump the helium into a low-pressure (10s of bars rather than hundreds or thousands) tank to reduce static lift. In your scenarion, would permit longer times on station as you'd be able to compensate for burnt fuel better, and would make setting down in the fashion denodon's described easier too. Link here for some details http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroscraft or here http://aeroscraft.com/company/4575610685

Not sure if it's entirely appropriate, but thought it may be of interest.

Regards,
APDSmith

edit:added better link

_________________
Public Service Announcement: This is the preferred SB / FD font.

NSWE: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5695