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| question regarding anti ship weapons http://67.205.157.234/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6068 |
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| Author: | shippy2013 [ May 10th, 2015, 8:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | question regarding anti ship weapons |
i need an anti ship missile for circa 1960-1970 for my AU New Cromer but there doesnt seen to be many NATO or western options till the late 70's so would Bull pup missile be able to be effectivly used as an anti ship weapon (not against large targets but say large gun boats etc) it entered service circa 1959-60 so hope fully may fit the bill or are there any western alternatives..... |
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| Author: | Novice [ May 10th, 2015, 9:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: question regarding anti ship weapons |
Only surface fired anti-ship missile was Israeli Gabriel, fully operational by 1973 (also battle proven). Other less known alternatives were Italian Nettuno (also known as Sea Killer Mk.1), which was tested in 1966, and a slightly bigger brother the Vulcano (Sea Killer Mk2) which had a two stage engine and slightly longer range. Air launched weapons were the Anglo-French Martel (although it wasn't designed as an anti shipping missile). The French also had the AS.34 (Kormoran in German service). Also smaller missiles were the French air launched AS.11 and AS.12 which were also tested as surfaced launched weapons (the Libyan Navy had three British patrol crafts armed with the SS.12M missile delivered from Vosper in 1968). |
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| Author: | heuhen [ May 10th, 2015, 9:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: question regarding anti ship weapons |
The earliest "Fire and forget" missile is the Penguin Mk1 (Norwegian Wiki), English wiki say: It was the first NATO AShM with an IR seeker (instead of the commonly used active radar technology) and both hardware and software has been updated since entering series production in 1972. and the Penguin was in development since the 1960s. Other than that and what Novice mentioned, there aren't that many at that time. It was still early in the missile age. |
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| Author: | TimothyC [ May 10th, 2015, 11:12 pm ] | |
| Post subject: | Re: question regarding anti ship weapons | |
i need an anti ship missile for circa 1960-1970 for my AU New Cromer but there doesnt seen to be many NATO or western options till the late 70's so would Bull pup missile be able to be effectivly used as an anti ship weapon (not against large targets but say large gun boats etc) it entered service circa 1959-60 so hope fully may fit the bill
The lack of western alternatives is due to two main factors:or are there any western alternatives.....
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| Author: | shippy2013 [ May 11th, 2015, 4:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: question regarding anti ship weapons |
Maybe I should have mentioned in my first post that i was looking for an air launched AshM it would be launched from the Navy's Buccaneers and Vixens from 1968 till the navy would get at first ship launched Exocet then Harpoon and the Buccaneer's Sea Eagle and from Air-force Canberra's modified with wing pylons From 1960(ish) and Buccaneers 1966 (ish) till the Air-Force moved to Martel ('84) then Sea Eagle ('86) and eventually Harpoon ('00's), so i take it that if this was the USN tactic at the time then although Bullpup had some major drawbacks (e.i the launch aircraft having to practically follow the missile using its rear flare to guide it in) it could be used for anti ship roles. till Martel and then Sea Eagle Become available in the early 1980's and eventually settling on Harpoon in the early 00's. |
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| Author: | Thiel [ May 11th, 2015, 4:52 am ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: question regarding anti ship weapons | ||
If you want to have a dedicated anti-ship weapon an ASROC pepperbox launched Bullpup is reasonable, and has been rendered on the old board here.
Surface launching an AGM-12 seems like an odd choice and I expect it would turn out about as well as the other attempts at getting MCLOS missiles to work as ship to ship missiles.
Maybe I should have mentioned in my first post that i was looking for an air launched AshM it would be launched from the Navy's Buccaneers and Vixens from 1968 till the navy would get at first ship launched Exocet then Harpoon and the Buccaneer's Sea Eagle and from Air-force Canberra's modified with wing pylons From 1960(ish) and Buccaneers 1966 (ish) till the Air-Force moved to Martel ('84) then Sea Eagle ('86) and eventually Harpoon ('00's), so i take it that if this was the USN tactic at the time then although Bullpup had some major drawbacks (e.i the launch aircraft having to practically follow the missile using its rear flare to guide it in) it could be used for anti ship roles. till Martel and then Sea Eagle Become available in the early 1980's and eventually settling on Harpoon in the early 00's.
You'll probably want to replace it before then. The US stopped making them in 1969 and by the time the got rid of the last one in the early eighties it was dangerously outdated. Its stand-off rangeis short enough that you have to launch it within your targets AA envelope and you have to fly in a straight line to guide it. Not a winning combination.
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| Author: | shippy2013 [ May 11th, 2015, 10:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: question regarding anti ship weapons |
Sounds like I need to look at an indigenous missile then from 1970 to 1983-5 really till I then buy Anglo/French Martel then the Sea Eagle... Possibly using the Bullpup missile as a basis but with advances in guidance and range possibly TV guided that would lead nicely into the Martel.... |
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| Author: | Thiel [ May 11th, 2015, 1:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: question regarding anti ship weapons |
You could go for the AGM-65 Maverick instead. It was developed specifically to replace the Bullpup. |
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| Author: | shippy2013 [ May 11th, 2015, 2:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: question regarding anti ship weapons |
Following a few pm's between myself and odysseus1980 he sent me two articles about U.S. missiles one being the Condor a for runner to the walleye and an in depth article on the Bullpup, and I think I can get away with the Bullpup up to the early 80's if I keep up with the U.S. upgrades but I can keep the Maverick as an option to it could replace Bullpup from 1973 till 1983/4 when a heavy weight Martel and Sea Eagle arrive. |
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| Author: | Novice [ May 11th, 2015, 4:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: question regarding anti ship weapons |
Or you can go with the French A.S 34 , which was used by the German s as the Kormoran, and it was the fore runner of Martel (A.S 37 in French service). |
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