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looking for artist for joint project(s)
http://67.205.157.234/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5372		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  lordarpad [ June 19th, 2014, 8:14 am ]
Post subject:  looking for artist for joint project(s)
Guys, some of you may know me. I have been active on wesworld and i am a pretty decent designer of naval neverweres. What I am not is a graphical artist. I was wondering whether there is anybody who'd be interested in working on alternate world designs with me?

An example of my thinking:

This assumes that the EU has a joint navy, which of course in the absence of a joint foreign policy is a pipedream The idea is to have the equivalent of a Burke and to use as much European kit as we can.

Range will have to be global, so call it 8000 nm @ 20 kts - Diesels.
Speed: depending on which national preference wins anything between 28 and 32 kts - 1 or 2 MT30

Armament:

1x127/64 OTO - in 'A' position
48 Sylver A70
2x76 OTO Strales in 'B' position like Horizon class
SF500 radar
2x2 TT for MU 90
8 SSM (NSM or RBS15 Mk3 or Mk4)
32 Sylver A43 midships
SSTD torpedo defence
active countermeasures
4 Nexter Narwhal on the corners of the superstructure
Hangar for two AW 101 or Caracal or UAVs. Flight deck accordingly and should be able to take a Chinnook/HTH (if it ever happens)
1x76 OTO Strales between the hangars
VDS and TACTASS and hull sonar
passive countermeasures system - which one? Not up on that

Missiles:
Sea Ceptor quad pack in S43, Aster 15 in S43
Aster 30 (ABM) and Naval Scalp in S70

Displacement would probably come in around 10 Gg

I of course need to simulate the hull in spingsharp
Author:  lordarpad [ June 19th, 2014, 9:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: looking for artist for joint project(s)
rough and ready in spring sharp:

Draught is without sonar ...

Olympos, EU Cruiser laid down 1950

Displacement:
8,976 t light; 9,186 t standard; 10,488 t normal; 11,531 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(523.46 ft / 492.13 ft) x 72.18 ft x (19.69 / 21.01 ft)
(159.55 m / 150.00 m) x 22.00 m x (6.00 / 6.40 m)

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, steam turbines, plus diesel motors,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 64,712 shp / 48,275 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2,345 tons

Complement:
517 - 673

Cost:
£4.151 million / $16.603 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Machinery: 1,548 tons, 14.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,428 tons, 70.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,512 tons, 14.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
33,747 lbs / 15,307 Kg = 312.5 x 6 " / 152 mm shells or 4.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
Metacentric height 4.8 ft / 1.5 m
Roll period: 13.9 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck ,
an extended bulbous bow and large transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.525 / 0.541
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.82 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 26.07 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 40.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 6.56 ft / 2.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 29.53 ft / 9.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Aft deck: 20.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Quarter deck: 30.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 23.56 ft / 7.18 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 49.2 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 243.7 %
Waterplane Area: 25,199 Square feet or 2,341 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 339 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 199 lbs/sq ft or 973 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.96
- Longitudinal: 4.65
- Overall: 2.13
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room

Warning: Beam between bulkheads too wide
Author:  heuhen [ June 19th, 2014, 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: looking for artist for joint project(s)
EU have basicly a joint fleet, but not in The same way as the US.

on other hand, you have to many guns on you'r ship. It's enough with:

1x127mm
2xgoalkeeper
two set of VLS
8 NSM
some torpedoes etc.

for radar, well I would have an look at the APAR, perhaps try to get hold of an overpowered APAR or an enlarged version (expensive like sh..).

or just go for a SPY-1 solution.
Author:  bezobrazov [ June 19th, 2014, 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: looking for artist for joint project(s)
Solution's easy enough: you've got the LCFs, the Horizons and the Type 45. Ergo: absolutely no need for a "Burke equivalent" since they all are that already! -In fact, if you want to save money, which is always a good idea in a perennially cash-stricken European defense environment, then the Danish Absalon/ Iver Huitfeldt is your candidate!

So, in other words, why make life more complicated when you already have the gear at hand?
Author:  acelanceloet [ June 19th, 2014, 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: looking for artist for joint project(s)
none of those ships are actually burke equivalents.
the LCF is an command ship with 48 cell missiles and longer radar range but an lower amount of similtanious engagements then a burke, for example.
Author:  lordarpad [ June 19th, 2014, 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: looking for artist for joint project(s)
the 76mm is a much more potent CIWS than goalkeeper or similar as MN and MM have decided. Hence me going for it. As for radar, have a look at SF500 http://www.frontline-defence.com/images ... ntline.jpg

SPY-1 not being European is not an option. And sorry, the EU does not have a joint navy. We don't have joint procurement and we don't have joint political purpose. This precludes having joint armed forces.

The idea here is to capitalise on deduplicating of effort. check the USN and Spy-1. >60 ships, one radar. we have APAR, EMPAR, SAMPSON for 17 ships that are operated by 5 navies. Triplication of effort for less that an 3rd of the output. Silly doesn't begin to describe it.
Author:  acelanceloet [ June 19th, 2014, 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: looking for artist for joint project(s)
can you show me test results for the 76mm being an better CIWS then goalkeeper? if it is, I would like an explanation why the 76mm on the kortenaer class was replaced with goalkeepers :P
Author:  heuhen [ June 19th, 2014, 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: looking for artist for joint project(s)
Norway are using SPY-1 and that radar was modded by the Norwegians. so you can call that one a sort of Scandinavian/US radar.


76mm is an cannon build to do many things, attacking ship, long range Air defense, land attack, etc. any ship need an short range defense, the goalkeeper are an CIWS, it's have an task is to handle small boats at close range, and to handle any missiles at short range.


the defensive line for an ship against incoming missiles tends to be: first using AAW missiles like ESSM/NSSM/etc., is main gun doing long range AAW, then you have CIWS for short range. Or as we all call it: a multiple layer AAW defense.


Europa have an Joint fleets or to say it this way multiple fleets. not as massive as USA. but then we are not having the same role. The European joint fleets is mainly under NATO, but there you have USA in the support role. EU have some small unit, where the EU-country's is supplying. but it's mostly NATO, and it's only task is defense of Europa.

Note the Sylver is basically an MK-41 VLS, but with some differences!
Author:  bezobrazov [ June 20th, 2014, 1:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: looking for artist for joint project(s)
Ace, I know that; however, would even a United European Navy really need a precise equivalent of the hugely expensive Burkes? I know, as a former EU-taxpayer, I'd not be willing to pay up for such needless extravagance. I wanted to emphasize the more economic designs that have prevailed in Europe, especially the Iver Huitfeldts. Those could possibly be a mainstay of such future navy organization.
Author:  lordarpad [ June 20th, 2014, 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: looking for artist for joint project(s)
76mm Strales: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6_Swig2J2E Goalkeeper is 90s tech. Bigger calibres are better. The USN is using the Bofors 57mm on the Zumwalts, France and Italy 76mm. The 76mm on the Kortenaers was replaced with goalkeeper for the SM-1 versions IIRC - and again that is 90s news ...
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