Shipbucket

Mr. Bond, Thank you for your clarifications, and yes, a dummy page with the artwork would be most informative.

Sincerely,

Timothy Cizadlo.

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𝐌𝐀𝐓𝐇𝐍𝐄𝐓- 𝑻𝒐 𝑪𝒐𝒈𝒊𝒕𝒂𝒕𝒆 𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝒕𝒐 𝑺𝒐𝒍𝒗𝒆

Indeed, like TimothyC said, it would assist in our comprehension of your request, if you'd create such a dummy pages, to illustrate your meaning of the suggested arrangement. Some of us are very knowledgeable in English, by all means, but are quite ignorant when it comes to business agreements, contractual principles etc!

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My Avatar:Петр Алексеевич Безобразов (Petr Alekseevich Bezobrazov), Вице-адмирал , царская ВМФ России(1845-1906) - I sign my drawings as Ari Saarinen

Yes, as evidenced by the use of the word "commercial." Bywater's War, authored by Mr. Bob Eldridge, will be published by Clash of Arms Games of Phoenixvile, PA in the Spring of 2013. It is in draft now. The supplement provides 4 historical campaigns, with a total of 30 scenarios, that can be played using the Command at Sea tactical naval miniatures rules. The supplement will include a 128-page booklet and two sheets of ship and aircraft counters to be used with the game. The Price has not been fixed yet, but similar supplements published by CoA sell for $25 to $30 US.

You earlier expressed concern about me "profiting from your work." If the artist receives proper compensation, mutually agreed on, then nobody's being exploited.

Compensation can include not only reasonable monetary fees, but advertising for the site. I've offered in the past, and the offer stands, to include a blurb for Shipbucket in the supplement. We already have a similar agreement with Objects May Appear, who are producing some ship miniatures designed to work with our supplement.

And I haven't seen a response from Novice. I hope he's been following this discussion. I'd like to hear his opinion.

The problem I have with this request is that Shipbucket drawings do not necessarily belong only to the artist listed on the drawing. Many times, we use parts that come from the overall Shipbucket archive, not just parts we've drawn.

To me the idea of you making money off our work, whether or not you compensate us, just goes entirely against what we are doing here. Shipbucket has always been a non-monetized collective of ship artists who do this as a hobby, for our own purposes.

If our artists want to draw ships for you, that's great and totally acceptable but they should do it outside of Shipbucket. What I'm trying to say is that we are not a "drawing farm" where interested parties can show up, "compensate" an artist, throw a quick "artwork by shipbucket" somewhere in the rulebook, and be done.

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USN components, camouflage colors, & reference links (World War II only)

Colosseum, evidently you've never worked as a commercial artist. There are many companies whose sole purpose is to act as a source of copyrighted material, which others pay for permission to use in their publications. Most artists are pleased when someone wants to publish their stuff, for the professional recognition, if nothing else.

I'm not trying to blow sunshine at anyone, but the Shipbucket website is a valuable resource for writers that need naval line art. It's all to a common standard, and of a uniformly high quality. Line art is often hard to find, and Shipbucket includes many unusual subjects. Most publishers use existing art whenever possible, since commissioning a drawing takes more time and money.

As far as the work not being entirely the creation of one person, the recognized standard is that if the majority of the work is that of the artist, then he has created a unique work and it can be copyrighted. I would also argue (and I'm not a lawyer) that the archive was created for the express purpose of serving as a common source for graphic elements.

Recognize that the drawings on Shipbucket have value, and as a commercial wargame designer, I think that it would improve the quality of my work. Dummy pages to follow.

mister bond, I'd like to point out again what I said earlier: so, we can say that the majority of an drawing is of an artist, but it is shipbucket style artwork, which is basically a product of the community as an whole. let me put it this way: if you have an lego building, the work of the artist would be impossible to value if you did not value the work of the one who created the lego concept and all the bricks that exist now.

so we cannot put this drawing, and any payment for it, to be the property of one single person. hence why we need to agree as community how to handle this. note that I am not against you using the work, but my stance is based on how exactly you are going to use it, which we will see when you have the dummy pages ready.

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Drawings are credited with J.Scholtens
I ask of you to prove me wrong. Not say I am wrong, but prove it, because then I will have learned something new.
Shipbucket Wiki admin

OK, a question: I've created two dummy pages, as .pdfs or .jpgs. I've never posted an graphic, and the editor isn't letting me paste the images into this post.

you cannot post them directly, you have to upload them externally (for example on an image hosting size, dropbox or your own server space) and [img] link them. you can also just link to the pdfs.

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Drawings are credited with J.Scholtens
I ask of you to prove me wrong. Not say I am wrong, but prove it, because then I will have learned something new.
Shipbucket Wiki admin

...yes, I've only "worked" as someone dedicated to a hobby. Not as a commercial artist. You are correct.

Your points above are not relevant since Shipbucket is not a company that exists to sell copyrighted materials to others. We are not professional artists. This is a hobby website and nothing more; the day it becomes something more than that is the day that I end my involvement.

Edit: Thanks for the nice words at any rate. It's nice to know our work is valued. I just don't like the idea of "selling" what we do. Doesn't seem right.

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USN components, camouflage colors, & reference links (World War II only)

I'm not criticizing your status as a hobbyist, but don't look down on something that provides a livelihood and value to many people.

The purpose of art is to be seen. Don't you want your drawings, and Shipbucket, to have a wider audience?

The simple answer to the common ownership problem is for CoA's payment (that's with a small "p") to be split between the artist and Shipbucket. Somebody's paying server fees. This would help.

And where is Novice? How often does he visit the site?

I'm off to set up a dropbox account.