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Treaty Cruiser Design Challenge
http://67.205.157.234/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=8375		 Page 8 of 15
Author:  maomatic [ April 11th, 2018, 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Treaty Cruiser Design Challenge
Hi everyone,

here's my contender and first ever personal design. So, please be gentle... :)

Leichter Kreuzer Wiesbaden - basically a "Baby-Hipper" armed with ten 15cm guns (2x3 & 2x2).

It tried to make it a "Jack-of-all-trades" kind of cruiser, combining decent armament, protection and speed.
There's no real plausible "alternative timeline" backstory, other than that I tried to build a German CL that would be better suited to battle its' Soviet and French counterparts.(Kirov & the planned De Grasse)

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And lastly here's my amateurish Springsharp report (also my first...).
I had no idea how to represent the typical German armor-scheme, but I hope it came out OK:

Wiesbaden, Germany Light Cruiser laid down 1937

Displacement:
9.287 t light; 9.619 t standard; 10.773 t normal; 11.696 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
619,58 ft / 597,11 ft x 62,99 ft x 20,67 ft (normal load)
188,85 m / 182,00 m x 19,20 m x 6,30 m

Armament:
10 - 5,87" / 149 mm guns (4 mounts), 101,14lbs / 45,88kg shells, 1929 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
8 - 4,13" / 105 mm guns (4x2 guns), 35,32lbs / 16,02kg shells, 1930 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts
on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
12 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm guns (6x2 guns), 1,55lbs / 0,70kg shells, 1930 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
9 - 0,79" / 20,0 mm guns in single mounts, 0,24lbs / 0,11kg shells, 1930 Model
Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 1.315 lbs / 596 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150
6 - 21,0" / 533 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3,54" / 90 mm 376,18 ft / 114,66 m 10,33 ft / 3,15 m
Ends: 0,79" / 20 mm 220,90 ft / 67,33 m 9,51 ft / 2,90 m
Main Belt covers 97% of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
0,79" / 20 mm 376,18 ft / 114,66 m 18,47 ft / 5,63 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 3,54" / 90 mm - 3,54" / 90 mm
2nd: 0,79" / 20 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1,97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 3,94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 3 shafts, 101.059 shp / 75.390 Kw = 33,10 kts
Range 6.000nm at 18,00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 2.077 tons

Complement:
528 - 687

Cost:
£4,665 million / $18,660 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 164 tons, 1,5%
Armour: 2.128 tons, 19,8%
- Belts: 640 tons, 5,9%
- Torpedo bulkhead: 202 tons, 1,9%
- Armament: 344 tons, 3,2%
- Armour Deck: 900 tons, 8,4%
- Conning Tower: 41 tons, 0,4%
Machinery: 2.801 tons, 26,0%
Hull, fittings & equipment: 4.114 tons, 38,2%
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1.486 tons, 13,8%
Miscellaneous weights: 80 tons, 0,7%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
12.938 lbs / 5.869 Kg = 127,9 x 5,9 " / 149 mm shells or 2,0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,11
Metacentric height 3,0 ft / 0,9 m
Roll period: 15,2 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 62 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,34
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 0,96

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck
Block coefficient: 0,485
Length to Beam Ratio: 9,48 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24,44 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 65
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25,00 degrees
Stern overhang: 9,84 ft / 3,00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 27,07 ft / 8,25 m
- Forecastle (19%): 20,18 ft / 6,15 m
- Mid (50%): 18,21 ft / 5,55 m
- Quarterdeck (18%): 18,21 ft / 5,55 m
- Stern: 19,19 ft / 5,85 m
- Average freeboard: 19,50 ft / 5,94 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 142,8%
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 148,4%
Waterplane Area: 24.724 Square feet or 2.297 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 118%
Structure weight / hull surface area: 106 lbs/sq ft or 516 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0,98
- Longitudinal: 1,21
- Overall: 1,00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather <- :(
Author:  heuhen [ April 12th, 2018, 5:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Treaty Cruiser Design Challenge
I was waiting for a German one
Author:  Garlicdesign [ April 12th, 2018, 7:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Treaty Cruiser Design Challenge
Hi Maomatic!

That's a real cutie, worthy of my birth town's proud name! Certainly better than an M-class.

Don't worry about Springsharp's seakeeping verdict. My Yoshinos were a lot worse. Springsharp always credits fast vessels with hilariously bad seakeeping; this is probably due to calculating seakeeping at full speed. At cruising or even normal maximum sea speed, all is well, better than most real German ships of that era.

I wonder how she'd fare with eight 170mm guns?

Greetings
GD
Author:  Hood [ April 12th, 2018, 8:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Treaty Cruiser Design Challenge
That's a very nice looking German cruiser, a mini Hipper.
Author:  BB1987 [ April 12th, 2018, 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Treaty Cruiser Design Challenge
BB1987 wrote: *April 5th, 2018, 10:49 pm
Charguizard wrote: *April 3rd, 2018, 8:02 pm
So none of them get built? D:

Shame because they really look the part and would've liked to see late refits.
Unfortunately yes. Maybe I'm rigging myself between too many restrictions, but I do try to stick within the footprint of my AU with nearly everything I'm drawing that it is not real life. This unfortunately means those two never left the papers :(
I went back on my thoughts and did a wartime rendition for both. "Artist impression" was a nice excuse to add something more.
Author:  Krakatoa [ April 13th, 2018, 4:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Treaty Cruiser Design Challenge
Great looking cruiser Maomatic.

Rather than the 170's, did you think about 12x5.9"? (Keep to 5.9" for ease of replenishment) The ship certainly looks big enough to fit another couple of barrels on.
Author:  Charguizard [ April 16th, 2018, 1:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Treaty Cruiser Design Challenge
This thread keeps getting better and better, we have a fantastic set of drawings here.
Also I really like when creative camos are applied to them.
Author:  TigerHunter1945 [ April 17th, 2018, 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Treaty Cruiser Design Challenge
Good Design Maomatic she is really beautiful looking ship indeed.

And Now here is my entry

Newport Republic Navy,Skidbladnir-Class

In Early 1930,Newport Republic Navy is looking for modernisation of its fleet and thus gain a guaranteed naval supremacy for its highly contested archipelago of Tower Island over major naval power such like Japan and France.However to keep tension between world naval power low enough to not sparking a major naval arms race as seen on years leading into World War I,Newport modernisation program adhered strictly to the treaty provisions in all fields of new fleet plan,including the cruiser which the design became Skidbladnirs which is design to meet a design requirement of 8 inch main gun,a 533 mm torpedo armament and 4 inch dual-purpose gun,a 32 knot speed and range of 8000 nm. All of these should displaced below 10.000 t standard,an international treaties guidelines

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In Newport modernisation program she was design to protect smaller vessel from enemy heavy cruiser,outrun main enemy battlefleet in a hit -and-run tactic with destroyer,torpedo cruiser and light cruiser and escorting convoy and carrier task forces against enemy surface raider for this task the designer had to experiment with many design as the ships should be in 10.000 t limits while catering all of Navy board needs.various design and configuration were proposed,from 8 guns in 4 twin mounts,a design consisted of 12 guns in 4 triple mounts with virtually no armor,and unconventional 8 guns in quadruple turrets with 100mm of belt armor.In 1934 latter design were accepted.
Skidbladnir is 187mm long,18,5mm wide beam and 6m draught with that she displaced on 9,400t light and 9,900 t standard.Well safe along treaties strict guidelines
The ship layout is unconventional for a cruiser.Its main offensive weapons 8 203mm Model 1935 gun is concentrated in 2 quadruple turrets facing forward.the Turret is divided by inner bulkhead of 20mm thickness and have a sufficient protection against direct hit from same calibre, concentrating firepower forward and broadside,the configuration is seem as an ideal weight-saving measures by the Navy board.Her secondary armament consist of ten director-controlled 100mm Model 1934 guns in 5 twin turrets and five 20mm Stanley autocannon. The ship also carries eight 533mm TLT33 torpedoes in two quadruple mounts with an easy access to torpedo storage thanks to its strategic placement.
The ship has been configured with extensive aviation facilities on the stern with a NC-32 catapult in far back astern, collapsible crane and space for two aircraft in an enclosed armored hangar.When commisioned in 1937,Skidbladnir carries 3 Waggner Wa-43 reconnasisance aircraft to expand the cruiser’s reconnaissance radius.
The powerplant are consisted of six Whilborough boiler which generates an output power of 90,000hp on 2 shafts,capable of giving her 34 knots speed on sea trial but latter was limited to 32 knot for efficiency reason
The unconventional layout of the ships gives a short (only 65m) but thick armored belt of considerable thickness 120mm over magazines and machinery and is inclined 15° to the exterior to maximalize its effectiveness. 4m tall over magazines and 3.5m tall over machinery spaces. Armour is extended to the bow by a 45mm belt 2m tall which designed to deflect any splinters from destroyer shells.The deck armour consisted of 10mm of weather deck armor and 40mm deck armor which increase to 50mm above the magazines and the machinery spaces.The structure is supported by 40mm bulkhead.Tthe forward conning tower is protected by 70mm front armour, 80mm sides which gradually decrease to 70mm on sloping ends near the funnel and a 40mm roof.The main battery turrets have 80mm faces, 40mm sides, 30mm roof and rear and 60mm barbettes. The secondary turrets have 30mm faces and barbettes and 10mm splinter protection on sides, roof and rear.
First class of Skidbladnir-Class, Skidbladnir the lead ships of the class,was laid down at the Heilensburg Naval Works in July 1936, launched in June 1937 and commissioned in October 1937. After shakedown period she was assigned to 1st Surface Battlegroup New Hambshire Naval Base.In 1938 she participated on 5th Newportian Antarctic Expedition along with Icebreaker Antarktika , 2 civilian ships and fleet replenisment ships John Hausberger. She completed the expedition on February 1939 and earned the nickname "Antarctic Ladys"
For the Skidblanir-Class,further 5 were ordered.
Author:  Imperialist [ April 17th, 2018, 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Treaty Cruiser Design Challenge
Oh that's real pretty, nice work :)
Author:  erik_t [ April 17th, 2018, 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Treaty Cruiser Design Challenge
Extremely attractive. Is 90kshp on two shafts realistic in that era?
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