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Soviet and Eastern Bloc Project Numbers http://67.205.157.234/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6210 |
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Author: | Hood [ August 9th, 2015, 3:18 pm ] |
Post subject: | Soviet and Eastern Bloc Project Numbers |
I've been going through Tzoli's comprehensive list of Soviet project numbers that he has complied. It raises an interesting question. To what extent were other Warsaw Bloc nations tied into the Project numbering system? The East German list here: http://www.vierte-flottille.de/schiffeu ... ktevm.html indicates the GDR had its own separate numbering system, but East German ships were accommodated within the Soviet system where conflict occurred (for example Project 133 Antares/ Muravey class guard ship and Project 133.1M Parchim II class corvette. The Poles too seemed to have their own system but it seems a very long numbering list and several of the 770 series transports do not overlap with other Soviet designs. Then there is the odd case of Romania, very few of its ships have Project numbers but the Tetals (Pr.1048) and the Mihail Koganiceanu class river monitor (Pr.1310) had such numbers assigned at they fall within unused Soviet numbers. Oddly other Romanian ships like the Muntenia Class don't have numbers. Can any of our E.Bloc experts untangle this mess? And would it be possible for use to tease out a complete list of all E.Bloc project numbers? |
Author: | Gollevainen [ August 9th, 2015, 3:41 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Soviet and Eastern Bloc Project Numbers |
polish and east german project numbering where indeed national and did not correspond to the Soviet system, thought using them at first place was offcourse influenced by that of the soviet one. The german system particulary was rather comprehensive, it covered all projects since the 50's and often issued decimal numbering for each individual ship of the class (this was also used for the soviet made ships at least in cases of the larger combatants). I think the most overlapsing issues seems to come when they exported their ships to Soviet union which then used those same numbers though I recall that some polish vessels had different pr. numbers in soviet use (perhaps Eswube can help with those?) Romanian numbers are indeed rare and I've never came cross to them in any actuall romanian publication. |
Author: | Hood [ August 15th, 2015, 3:27 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Soviet and Eastern Bloc Project Numbers |
My first attempt at a Polish list. I'm sure there is plenty to add here: Project 9 (1956): Oksywie class coast guard patrol boat Project 90 (1973): Wisloka class coast guard patrol boat Project 101 (1953): KP-101 class coast guard patrol boat (built in Hungary) Project 151 (1954): TR-40 class licence-built Soviet design river minesweeper Project 122bis (1955): improved Kronshtadt class submarine chaser (USSR) Project 130 (1984): Bereza class degaussing vessel for USSR Project 130-I (1990s): modified Bereza degaussing and research ship design Project 361S (1956): KP-108 class licence-built Soviet design patrol boat Project 361T (1956): KP-118 class licence-built Soviet design minesweeper Project 189 (1956): P-6 class torpedo boat (USSR) Project 194BMO (1946): S-71 class submarine chaser (USSR) Project 200 (1946): OD-200 class submarine chaser (USSR) (aka MO-D-3 class) Project 205 (1964): Osa I class fast missile boat (USSR) Project 206F Orlik (1963): Krogulec class minesweeper Project 206FM Orlik (1999): modernised Krogulec class minesweeper Project 207 (1982): Notec class minesweeper Project 207D (???): modified Notec class trials ship Project 207P (1984): improved Notec class minesweeper Project 207M (1992): improved Notec class minesweeper Project 208 (1971): Mrowka class degaussing tender Project 253L (1950s): MT class minesweeper (USSR) Project 254K (1950s): T-61 class minesweeper (USSR) Project 254M (1950s): T-64 class minesweeper (USSR) Project 300 (1962): Oskol I class floating workshop for USSR Project 300/2: Oskol I class floating workshop for USSR Project 301T (1964): Oskol II class floating workshop for USSR Project 303 (1967): Modified Oskol class floating workshop for USSR Project 304.1 (1968): Amur I class floating workshop for USSR Project 304.2 (1976): Amur II class floating workshop for USSR Project 304.3 (1981): Amur III class floating workshop for USSR Project 304.4 (Pr.304M?) (1985): Amur IV class floating workshop for USSR Project 305 (1973): Tomba class electric power station for USSR Project 414 (1988): passenger launch Project 500 (???): fuel lighter Project 570: Piast class salvage ship Project 605.3 (???): large anti-submarine ship design Project 606 (???): large anti-submarine ship design Project 607 (???): large anti-submarine ship design Project 608 (???): large anti-submarine ship design Project 609 (???): large anti-submarine ship design Project 610 (???): small frigate design Project 611 (???): small frigate design Project 618 (???): small frigate design Project 618M (1971): small frigate design Project 619 (???): small frigate design Project 620 Drakon (1978): SK-620 class ambulance craft for USSR Project 620 (1987): Kaszub class corvette Project 620-II (1990s): modified Kaszub class corvette design Project 621 (2001): MEKO A-100 class frigate Project 660 Orkan (1990): Balcom-10 class fast missile boat (GDR Pr.151A Sassnitz ) Project 663D Sroka (1965): experimental torpedo boat Project 664 Sroka 2 (1972): Wisla class torpedo boat Project 649 (1984?): minelayer/ landing ship design for Bulgaria Project 709 Sztorm (1962): Eichstaden class landing craft Project 716 Droździk (1988): Deba class large landing craft Project 719 (1975): Marabut class landing craft Project 767-I (1983): medium landing ship design Project 767-II (1984): medium landing ship design Project 767-III (1984): medium landing ship design Project767 Brzegówka (1989): Balcom-11/ Lublin class medium landing ship/ minelayer Project 768 (???): medium landing ship design Project 769 (???): medium landing ship design Project 770D (1961): Polnocny-A class landing ship Project 770D/U (1971): modernised Polnocny-A class landing ship Project 770M (1964): improved Polnocny-A class landing ship Project 770MA (1964): improved Polnocny-A class landing ship Project 770T (1963): modified Polnocny-A class landing ship for USSR Project 771 (1966): Polnocny-B class landing ship Project 771A (1968): modified Polnocny-B class landing ship Project 773 (1970): export Polnocny-C class landing ship Project 773I: Polnocny-C class landing ship for India Project 773IM: modified Polnocny-C class landing ship for India Project 773K: Polnocny-C class landing ship for Iraq Project 773KL: Polnocny-C class landing ship for Libya Project 773U: Polnocny-D class landing ship for USSR Project 772 (1967): Bryza class personnel ferry Project 772U (1967): Bryza class training craft for USSR Project 775.1 (1972): Ropucha I class landing ship for USSR Project 775.2 (Pr.775M?) (1979): Ropucha II class landing ship for USSR Project 775.3 (1988): Ropucha III class landing ship for USSR Project 776: Modified Polnocny-C amphibious assault command ship Project 850 (1962): Nikolay Zubov class oceanographic vessel for USSR Project 850M (1966): Nikolay Zubov class intelligence gathering ship for USSR Project 852 (1972): Akademik Krylov class oceanographic vessel for USSR Project 852.2 (1977): Improved Akademik Krylov class oceanographic vessel for USSR Project 856 (???): modified Akademik Krylov class expeditionary oceanographic vessel for USSR Project 860 Azimut (1961): Samara class hydrographic survey ship for USSR Project 861 (1966): Moma class hydrographic survey ship Project 861M (1968): Moma class intelligence gathering ship for USSR Project 862 (1976): Yug class oceanographic vessel for USSR Project 862.1 (1980?): Yug class intelligence gathering ship for USSR Project 862.2 (1980): Yug class intelligence gathering ship for USSR Project 863: Modified Moma class small intelligence ship Project 864 Meridian (1984): Vishnya class intelligence gathering ship for USSR Project 870 (1968): Kamenka class hydrographic survey ship for USSR Project 871 (1969): Biya class hydrographic survey ship for USSR Project 872 (aka B-91) (1977): Finik class hydrographic survey ship for USSR Project 872.2 (1980): improved Finik class hydrographic survey ship for USSR Project 874 Heweliuz (1981): modified Finik class hydrographic survey ship Project 873 (1989): Sibirykov class hydrographic survey ship for USSR Project 877E Paltus (1986): Kilo I class diesel-electric attack submarine (USSR) Project 887 (1974): Smol'nyy class training ship for USSR Project 888 (1976): Wodnik class cadet training ship (Luga class in Soviet service) Project 888R (1976?): Wodnik II class training ship Project 890 (aka Pr.B-890 or Pr.130Z) (1999): Małż class logistical support ship Project 900 (???): RIB launch Project 902 (1959): Gdansk class coast guard patrol boat Project 912 Fala (1965): Obluze class coast guard patrol boat Project 912M Groźny (1970): Modified Obluze class small anti-submarine boat Project 918 (1973): Pilica class coast guard patrol boat Project 918M (1976): Modified Pilica class small anti-submarine boat Project 1130 (1961): Desna class missile range instrumentation ship for USSR Project 1241RE Molnaya (1983): Tarantul I class corvette (USSR) Project 1328 (1969): K-6 class coast guard motor launch Project 2201 (1990s): modified Project 775 class landing ship design for export Project 3564 S-12 (1986): Szkwal class coast guard motor launch Project 4234 (1989): ??? class inshore survey craft Project 5633 Kaper (1990): SKS-40 class coast guard patrol ship Project 7062 (1990s): medium landing ship design for export Project 7062-I (1990s): medium landing ship design for export Project B-1 (1954): fishing trawler Project B-15 (???): stern-trawler factory ship Project B-18 (1967): stern-trawler factory ship Project B-26 (1960): stern-trawler factory ship Project B-30 (1950): coal/ ore carrier Project B-31 (1957): collier Project B-32 (1953): collier Project B-40 (1967): cargo motorship Project B-43 (1962): cargo motorship Project B-44 (1963): cargo motorship Project B-44-II (???): cargo motorship Project B-45 (1962): motor timber carrier Project B-50 (1953): Levant class cargo motorship Project B-54 (1958): cargo motorship Project B-62 (1958): fishing craft mother ship Project B-64 (1963): fish-factory mother ship Project B-69 (1967?): fish-factory mother ship Project B-70 (1962): oil tanker Project B-74 (1962): small oil tanker Project B-79/II: barkentine sail training craft Project B-91: see Project 872 Finik above Project B-92 (1982): Neftegaz class tug for USSR Project B-93: Akademik Fersman class geophysical research ship for USSR Project B-99 (1984?): Iva / Vikhr class rescue tug for USSR Project B-106: M-81 class inshore survey craft for USSR Project B-140 (???): fishing trawler Project B-199 (1969?): Moskit class coastal oiler Project B410-IVS (1983): Leniwka class auxiliary minesweeper Project B-320 (???): Ob' class floating hospital for USSR Project B-320 II (1981): Ob' class floating hospital for USSR Project B-470 (1967): Zvenigorod class bulk carrier for USSR Project B-514 (1960): motor timber carrier Project B-541 (1961): refrigerated cargo motorship Project B-561: Nicobar class transport for India Project B-920 (1993): medium harbour tug Project B-823 (1991): Zbyszko class salvage tender Project BPZ-500A/MW (1988): fuel barge Project H300/II: Goliat class small harbour tug Project H-900/II (1980): Bucha class medium harbour tug Project H-960 (1992): large harbour tug Project Kormoran (1971): Pajak class torpedo retriever Project M-4500 (???): RIB launch Project M-4800 (???): RIB launch Project M-4800/B (???): RIB launch Project M-6100 (???): RIB launch Project M-7500 (???): RIB launch Project M-7500/K (???): RIB launch Project MS-3600 (1970): commander-in-chief's yacht Project TS-39 or UK-3 (1978): Petrushka class training cutter for USSR Bataisk (1955): fishery training ship for USSR D-3 (1946): ST-181 class motor torpedo boat (USSR) KD-153 (1947): fishing boat (4 armed as patrol vessels) KG-177 (1949?): fishing boat (2 armed as patrol vessels) KR-70 (1965): motor launch KR-70S Jesion (1973): coast guard motor launch KU-128 (1947): fishing boat M-35/ MW (1983): multi-purpose launch M-41 (1950s): utility boat MH-111 (1984): hydrographic survey launch NS-717 (1999): improved Project 716 class landing craft for Yemen NS-721 (late 1980s): modified Project 773 class landing ship design for India NS-722 (1999): modified Project 773 class landing ship for Yemen ST (1950): Bitny class training boat ZP-1200 (1991): small replenishment oiler |
Author: | eswube [ August 16th, 2015, 10:54 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Soviet and Eastern Bloc Project Numbers |
Very nice attempt Hood, but actually somewhat confusing, as it's actually not as much a "list of Polish project numbers" but rather "list of project numbers and design acronyms of ships built and used in Poland". Indeed each country used it's own project number sequence , but they were to an extent interchangeable in the sense that ships built in one country for another had only one project number (rare exception being the missile boat designated by NATO as BAL-COM 10, which was Pr.151 in East German sequence and Pr.660 in Polish sequence). The numbers on the list actually belong to three groups, only two of them (or one-and-a-half) is actually Polish. 1) ships built in Soviet Union (like Pr.205 or Pr.877 for example) or Hungary (Pr.101) and/or built in Poland under license which kept their original "foreign" project number (occassionaly with only an additional post-number letter for local design modification); 2) ships built in Poland for foreign - most often Soviet - order (either only for export - Pr.775 for example, or both for export and domestic use - Pr.770-family for example), having the same project number in both sequences (Polish and Soviet); 3) actual "Polish project numbers" (Pr.207, for example). Next thing are the project numbers with B-letter (Pr.B410 or Pr.B-410 depending on source). Generally these refer to civilian vessels, but with a caveat: the military project numbers were confidential, but the construction of any vessel involves of numerous sub-contractors, often delivering relatively trivial elements, therefore the "military-ordered ships" had, besides their main (confidential) project number, the secondary ("public") project number with B letter, used as internal designation of the design bureau and for contacts with sub-contractors, which thereby didn't need to know the "actual" designation. And finally, the last group on the list - besides containing the D-3 which is simply a non-Pr. Soviet designation, it contains some ships that generally belong to the "basic" lists as their extensions (like NS-717 or NS-723, whose numbers belong to original sequence but after the post-1989 political changes no longer use the Pr. but use the NS- - for Navy Shipyard - instead) and some separate non-sequential designations like ST which was essentialy a correspondence cryptonym rather than the "usual project number". There are also some fishing boats there, but the details of their designations are as yet unclear for me - I have relatively recently acquired a very interesting book about Polish fishing boats (with lots of drawings - hint, hint ), but I didn't had the opportunity to read it yet. I'll try to eventually compile the list of Polish project numbers, but that's unlikely to happen too soon, I'm afraid. P.S. - Not Pr.194BMO but Pr.194 BMO - BMO is a separate designation (Bronirovanny Malyi Okhotnik - Armored Small Submarine Chaser), not an extension of project number (like Pr.667B/BD/BRD/BDRM), as that would imply existence of earlier Pr.194B/BM. |
Author: | Hood [ August 16th, 2015, 12:36 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Soviet and Eastern Bloc Project Numbers |
Thanks for the feedback. Yes it is a compilation at the moment, the Soviet/ E.Bloc imports will be removed - they are placeholders at the moment. The group at the bottom are unknown's, I suspect many of these may have Project numbers but don't know for sure. As you say the NS sequence is post cold-war so should be removed. I included ships built for Soviet/ E.Bloc accounts for completeness, though I have these marked on the Soviet list too. I'm sure there are hundreds of B-numbers, this is a tiny selection I've come across. I complete list will be hard to compile and would be a big list but I'm sure we could get there in the end. |
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