Here's another advantage of the Bucc: it's been drawn.
Darth Panda drew it in Shipbucket scale, and Jabba drew it in FD-scale:
![[ img ]](http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb219/darthpanda_NL/BlackburnBuccaneer.png)
![[ img ]](http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/jtabbott/SBucket/BuccWIP.png)
Note that in the FD-scale drawing the top one is the prototype demonstrator.
| Shipbucket http://67.205.157.234/forums/ |
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| RHAF AU International Competion of 1958 http://67.205.157.234/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2324 |
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| Author: | odysseus1980 [ December 14th, 2011, 1:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | RHAF AU International Competion of 1958 |
We are in 1958,in my AU scenario and RHAF announces a international competion for a medium bomber aircraft.Total number 30-40 (depending on price) with all nessesary spares and ground equipment.Deliver time of first aircrafts in 2-3 years.Also manufacturer have to provide complete training for air crew,ground crew and maintenance crew.Service life 30-35 years. -Bomb load ~10 tons -Transonic speed at least -4 or more engines I thought the B-47 Stratojet and the Avro Vulcan and WhyMe suggested HP Victor and EE Canberra.Any other suggestions? The enemy at the opposite side of the Aegean considers to order 54 Tupolev Tu-16. Canberra exported widely and served for many years,could be exported also in Hellenic Kingdom,but it had 4t load and 2 engines. Victor is also a good idea,I do not know if UK would exported it in a NATO Allie... |
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| Author: | jabba [ December 14th, 2011, 1:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RHAF AU International Competion of 1958 |
Greetings! You could just design one for yourself. Or is this a challenge for FD-scale artists??? |
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| Author: | Thiel [ December 14th, 2011, 2:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RHAF AU International Competion of 1958 |
Well, since only one of the suggested planes live up to the specifications (HP Victor) I'm going to go a little left of field here and suggest the Republic Fairchild F-105 Thunderchief. It has a combat range of 1250km on internal fuel which will let it hit the majority of all Turkeys military installations, it can carry about twice as many bombs as the Canberra and at Mach 2 it's twice as fast as the Victor. It's also optimized for low level intrusion so it even stands a fair chance of getting to its target. |
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| Author: | WhyMe [ December 14th, 2011, 5:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RHAF AU International Competion of 1958 |
How about B-45 Tornado? Also, considering this is an AU, maybe try something that didn't take off in real history? For example: Short Sperrin, Martin XB-48, Convair XB-46. |
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| Author: | odysseus1980 [ December 19th, 2011, 1:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RHAF AU International Competion of 1958 |
The Martin Xb-48 was rejected because it was inadequate and the B-45 was the first jet bomber of USAF and withdrawned soon from service.I have read about both in a greek defense magazine.XB-46 was already obsolete when cancelled in 1947! The Short Sperrin is similar with Canberra but it was a test aircraft. The F-105 looks promising,it was the biggest ever single seat fighter,could absorb many gun hits and prooved very good as a radar destroyer with AGM-45 and AGM-78 in Vietnam.But also the F-4 Phantom could do this... Also the Vulcan fullfils my specifications.Because I have in mind something between B2 and B3 (underwing pylons for Adis I-S/OMI-24B or early AU stand off weapons based on supersonic drones-later in late 1960's) The B-47 had 2 pylons for fuel tanks or other possible loads.(In my scenario 2-4 OMI-24B).One drawback is that the J-47 engine had slow accelaration and the aircraft needed RATO system for fast take off,not good for a bomber. |
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| Author: | odysseus1980 [ December 26th, 2011, 8:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RHAF AU International Competion of 1958 |
As about planes,all excist in SB scale already.But I love to see a Victor in FD Scale. |
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| Author: | odysseus1980 [ December 31st, 2011, 1:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RHAF AU International Competion of 1958 |
I think that best choice is the Avro Vulcan B3.According to my scenario,RHAF ordered 32 units (of which 4 came in spares) and the 119th Squadron (Heavy Bombers) had 28 aircrafts.The Vulcan was designated EB-202 and developed in 4 variants locally. a)EB-202K: Air Refuller-Tanker (6) with assistance from Avro,equipment was in add-on kit.After 1984 withdrawned from service as tankers,as the first 4 B707-based R-272K entered sevice. b)EB-202N Mk1 (4):These modified for ASW role with 2-6 ASM OMI-24B Adis and served until 1991.The Mk2 with ASM OMI-26 Isis served until 2006! c)EB-202EW (2):An electronic warfare variant with Israel/Hellenic EW equipment.Served until 2002. d)EF-202B (16):Convectional Bomber,served until 1998. |
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| Author: | klagldsf [ January 1st, 2012, 2:31 am ] | |
| Post subject: | Re: RHAF AU International Competion of 1958 | |
blah blah blah, snip, refer to original post if you want to
The Blackburn Buccaneer sounds *practically* perfect for what you need. They were actually delivered to South Africa in '63 so the timeline is practically dead-on perfect. They carry *only* 5 tons of bombs, but that should be plenty 'nuff - if you really want the 10 tons requirement you can simply order more and really unless you're carrying a 1st gen nuke there's no real need for more. They only have two engines - but especially at this time drafting a requirement around the number of engines is beyond silly especially since your AU nation's own competitor uses bombers with just two engines (Tu-16s). Range is a more operationally relevant requirement and the Bucc's got long legs. They have only a crew of two and I imagine are probably a little less of a beast than the -105. Also they're not supersonic but they're amongst the best performers in the transonic range of any aircraft flown. They're also specifically anti-ship planes, which is a big deal against Turkey. Plus, we know the Brits will sell them.The F-111 is a harder sell because it's a larger, more complex and more expensive aircraft but it will certainly meet the requirements you're looking for aside from the engine stipulation. Also it probably won't be export-ready until 1970 at the earliest, but there were several export offers in real life (only Australia bit the bullet to buy them, though). In the meantime Canberras or even Lincolns can be an interim purchase. B-47s or V-Bombers would be a bit much and B-47s and Valiants were already starting to retire by 1958. B-45s would already be in the boneyards but it's not inconceivable that they'd be used in the interim waiting for Buccs too. But your most realistic choices are the Canberra and Bucc. |
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| Author: | klagldsf [ January 2nd, 2012, 5:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RHAF AU International Competion of 1958 |
Here's another advantage of the Bucc: it's been drawn. Darth Panda drew it in Shipbucket scale, and Jabba drew it in FD-scale: Note that in the FD-scale drawing the top one is the prototype demonstrator. |
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| Author: | odysseus1980 [ January 2nd, 2012, 8:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: RHAF AU International Competion of 1958 |
Yes,the Bucc was very good as seems realistic choice.So,this Buccanneer was the S.52,of which 64 units built with license by Hellenic Aircraft Industry and was its first project.Do not forget that in real Greece Blackburn had a midwar 10 year coopreration with the State Aircraft Factory (which I also keep in my AU). About loads,HLK has all the Mk82 family (Mk82,Mk83,Mk84) bombs,locally modified variants with laser guidance (and also Paveways),the ASM OMI-24B (with ground attack capability together with naval strike),AS-37 Martel (and did develop it further),several unguided rocket launchers (based around the US 2.75" rocket),various gun pods with 12.7mm,20mm,23mm, 30mm guns,reconnaissance pods and ECM/ESM/ELINT/SIGINT pods (each variant is for one mission only).Also the S.52H could use the AS-30,like South African units. |
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