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Split from Kriegsmarine 1946, second approach
http://67.205.157.234/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2139		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Carthaginian [ November 5th, 2011, 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Split from Kriegsmarine 1946, second approach
TimothyC wrote:
Blackbuck wrote:
But would that of still hastened up the designs of the XXI and other more advanced types of U-Boats?
It risks further dilution of the experienced crews which lowers effectiveness.
It gives a chance to train far more U-boat crews prior to the beginning of the war, actually.
This provides a stronger cadre, allows for more ocean-going Type VII and Type IX boats, and means that the SLoC are more completely covered in the early stages of the war prior to the massive buildup of escorts and development of more advanced ASW weapons. Except, instead of fielding an additional 50+ boats, they built two battleships that netted a single warship kill between the two of them (and that one pretty tired and poorly built).

The United States did just fine strangling Japan without the Electroboats, and Germany could have as succeeded against England without them as well. The Type XXI and Type XXIII are pretty toys, but not necessary for a German fleet that would win the war (or rather, a fleet that would have kept Germany from loosing the war).




And I am LOVING watching this mega-ship develop- but am picturing a single, statuesque B-36 Peacemaker flying high above the range of its SAMs and AAA carrying a single bomb that will ensure every man aboard her dies bald, toothless and nauseated within a week or so... even if the hull survives.

Ok people, if you want to continue this tangent do so here - and no flaming. I'm just as guilty of going off topic so my posts that were a part of this came along for the ride too.

-TimothyC
Author:  Ashley [ November 6th, 2011, 12:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Kriegsmarine 1946, second approach
Rhade wrote:
Maybe, but yanks have more experience with carrier operations. That would be good fight but still one Task Force can send 400 attack planes, how many with others ? We have in Poland saying: Even Hercules is ass when people in mass. ;)
We had someone saying 'If they come in masses, we can shoot them down in masses.' This sentence is ridiculous until we're talking of masses of prop driven naval attack aircraft against a sophisticated, radar guided air defense like on this ship, even 400 aircraft will be now problem. They will be detected a 100km away, the first dozens will die by missiles, then the DPs, then the medium aa finally the light aa. Even if they score some hits, what will happen? Uuh, they will pierce some little holes in it. Wow. And they have to be very lucky with their hits. Because then, if they are not, there wont be anything left to return to but burning wrecks.
Unless you have one magic fighter that will hit one vent with one torpedo and blew it all up. Oups, wrong universe.
This is an maxed out vision of superior technology. You cannot win against that this way. It's like a native tribe fighting against machine guns.

edit: high flying B-36? You remember SAMs were made to make high flying bombers fly low?
Author:  Carthaginian [ November 6th, 2011, 1:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Kriegsmarine 1946, second approach
Ashley - When the B-36 initially was fielded, there was ABSOLUTELY NOT ONE SINGLE SAM, jet interceptor, or piece of AAA that could reach her. This was precisely why she was built. Only when the MiG-15 and SA-2 became widely-fielded in the late 1950's did the B-36 loose its advantage. There were almost 10 years where the B-36 was 'Queen of the Skies.'

None of the weapon systems on this vessel have a ceiling that compares to the 43,000 ft ceiling of the B-36.
It could literally fly over top the ship in circles and not be taken out.
Author:  TimothyC [ November 6th, 2011, 2:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Kriegsmarine 1946, second approach
Carthaginian wrote:
Ashley - When the B-36 initially was fielded, there was ABSOLUTELY NOT ONE SINGLE SAM, jet interceptor, or piece of AAA that could reach her. This was precisely why she was built. Only when the MiG-15 and SA-2 became widely-fielded in the late 1950's did the B-36 loose its advantage. There were almost 10 years where the B-36 was 'Queen of the Skies.'

None of the weapon systems on this vessel have a ceiling that compares to the 43,000 ft ceiling of the B-36.
It could literally fly over top the ship in circles and not be taken out.
And it gets even worse for anyone going up against the B-36 (especially later versions).
  1. Maneuverability at altitude is mostly a function of power and wing area - this is why a B-36 can out-dog fight a MiG-15 at altitude.
  2. A B-36 has plenty of volume and weight capability for EW - so any radar guided SAM risks being jammed.
  3. The US definition of "Service Ceiling" is when the rate of climb drops below 100 feet per minute. The B-36 has plenty of range to keep climbing as it cruises.
  4. That ties in with the apocryphal stories of later B-36s maxing out at nearly 60000 feet.
Author:  Carthaginian [ November 6th, 2011, 2:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Kriegsmarine 1946, second approach
TimothyC wrote:
The US definition of "Service Ceiling" is when the rate of climb drops below 100 feet per minute. The B-36 has plenty of range to keep climbing as it cruises. That ties in with the apocryphal stories of later B-36s maxing out at nearly 60000 feet.
A former B-29 mechanic once told me "If you read something in a book about an aircraft, add 10%; if you hear it from a pilot, subtract 10%."
Author:  Rhade [ November 6th, 2011, 8:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Kriegsmarine 1946, second approach
Ashley wrote:
Unless you have one magic fighter that will hit one vent with one torpedo and blew it all up. Oups, wrong universe.
You know ... brits need only one old Swordfish with one old torpedo to stop one modern unsinkable german battleship. And if I remember correctly, none of good old biplane was shoot down. So yes! sometime you need only one plane with one torpedo. :lol:
Author:  emperor_andreas [ November 6th, 2011, 9:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Kriegsmarine 1946, second approach
Said Swordfish would need a nuclear torpedo to stop this monster.
Author:  acelanceloet [ November 6th, 2011, 9:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Kriegsmarine 1946, second approach
well, you could disable the propulsion by hitting the props....
anyways, there is always a way!
Author:  heuhen [ November 6th, 2011, 9:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Kriegsmarine 1946, second approach
mount a Norwegian Viking on a rocket, or just take a Dutchman! trolololol! sorry.
Author:  Rhade [ November 6th, 2011, 10:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Kriegsmarine 1946, second approach
emperor_andreas wrote:
Said Swordfish would need a nuclear torpedo to stop this monster.
Why ? Like acelanceloet said, you hit props or rudder and it's done. You big ship is dead on the water or running circles.
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