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| Brazil fleet rebuild 2011 http://67.205.157.234/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1447 |
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| Author: | Philbob [ June 28th, 2011, 4:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Brazil fleet rebuild 2011 |
I have been meaning to do this for a while. Most of you follow ship building news throughout the world and I was wondering what you all thoughts on the competition for Brazils fleet rebuild plan was. It is a interesting competition to follow and all of the contestants are putting up good products but in the end there can only be one. The nations of France, Italy, and the United Kingdom have all presented the government of Brazil with procurement packages, all of them will cost about the same price, and offer similar capabilities. The package includes a 6000 ton multirole frigate, a 1000-2000 ton OPV, and a 20,000 or + fleet replenishment ship fleet tanker. In my view each postions has some pros and cons Frigates -France will be able to offer already built frigate not a 'paper ship' like the UK Type 26 GCS, it is also doing well in sea trials which is more then we know when compared with the Italian FREMM (or FREMM-IT) design. How ever the French FREMM/FREDA (or FREMM-FR) will also be the least capable of the potential designs. That being said it is still light years better then the current ships of the Brazilian navy -Italy FREMM-IT would be more powerful then FREMM/FREDA when it comes to ordinance. It has more sensors and would be better suited to be fitted as a fleet area air defense ship later on. However with more weapons and sensors the price tends to go up and we haven't heard much on how she has preformed during sea trials. -UK The Type 26 is still a 'paper ship' but that is actually its advantage. Since it has not been fully designed that would allow the Brazilians to get their input into the design and possibly gain some critical skills in warship design from the start. This design would also probably take the longest to hit the waters but would be the most advanced from the start. OPV's all the designs have similar capabilities and weight classes and not much more needs to be said. Italy's design is the oldest and largest, UK's is about 5-6 years old and the French Gowind is the newest and is designed to be scaled up to a small escort role if needed -France Gowind -Italy Commandant class -UK River class Fleet Tankers -France DCNS's Brave fleet replenishment ship, new design that debuted for Euronaval 2010, similar to the UK's Fort II class ships and has room for a hospital or command center or to support French naval infantry forces -Italy Two options either the 27,000 ton fleet tanker designed for the Indian Navy or a the newer 18,000 ton multi store replenishment ship. The Fleet tanker is a new design and two were recently built for the Indian Navy so the design would be probably easier to begin construction on again. -UK has only offered its 30,000 ton Wave class Fast Fleet Tanker, the design is about ten years old but its still very modern, they could also offer the newer AEGIR-18 Fleet tanker So there you have it folks the UK package with its; Type 26 frigate, Wave fast fleet tanker, and River OPV; the French FREMM/FREDA, Gowind, and BRAVE; or Italy's FREMM-IT, Commandant OPV, and 27,000 ton Fleet tanker. There is also the option of other but please explain why you would choose someone else, and the most likely others would be the Dutch, Germans, South Korea, and Spanish. The USA is also an option but its extremely unlikely due to the cost of US designs, and Japan cannot legal sell its designs China and Russia are possible also but very unlikely for a variety of reasons (Don't make this a FLAME WAR ISSUE.) So Shipbucket what is your thoughts on this? It should also be noted that going with the French will add to the synergy developed from the Scorpens purchases; and who ever wins this naval package will probably influence who helps Brazil design its own Indigenous Aircraft Carrier and new assault ships. |
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| Author: | Dreadnaught [ June 28th, 2011, 4:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Brazil fleet rebuild 2011 |
I say the French package. I've heard the Brazil is intersted in nuke subs and France has the experience. Also it would make since for France to help with their carrier program since Brazil carrier background is with catapults and arrestor wire landings. |
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| Author: | Rodondo [ June 28th, 2011, 5:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Brazil fleet rebuild 2011 |
IMO-French for subs and carriers, Italy for the tanker, UK for the rest |
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| Author: | Philbob [ June 28th, 2011, 5:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Brazil fleet rebuild 2011 |
I also kinda lean towards France just because their frigate physically exists. But that being said there might be some wisdom in diversifying their purchases to multiple suppliers and not just France, or Italy or whomever for all their naval needs. But comprehensive naval packages are being offered not just single designs. |
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| Author: | Carnac [ June 28th, 2011, 6:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Brazil fleet rebuild 2011 |
I'd say the UK, because of the reasons mentioned for wanting a paper ship. |
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| Author: | Novice [ June 28th, 2011, 7:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Brazil fleet rebuild 2011 |
I chose a mixed package, as France has its frigates which are already built, the fleet tanker is a real contender, and the Brazilian navy already operates French built vessels, as well as former British vessels, but the only ship Britain has to offer now is the River class OPV. I'm sure Britain will do all it can to push foreward Type 26 frigate. Subs I believe will be from France, or Germany. There aren't many conventional sub designs, the only country with experience now is Germany, as well as Japan, Sweden but both last countries never sold subs abroad. To cap it all Frigates and tanker from France OPV from the UK Submarines Germany or France. |
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| Author: | ALVAMA [ June 28th, 2011, 8:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Brazil fleet rebuild 2011 |
DUTCH! |
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| Author: | GLACIESFIRE [ June 28th, 2011, 9:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Brazil fleet rebuild 2011 |
Well obviously I'm for the Italian package!!! Only hope that the fleet tanker will be redesigned in several parts due many problems on the Indian Deepak Class (Deepak and Shakti). I have delivered the Deepak till Mumbai and now I'm setting up the HTL package for the Shakti, and what I saw and eared is not nice from the Indian Navy… Fincantieri have an enormous potential in his shipyard with some of the best Naval Engeneers in he world… The FREMM-IT are going a little slow as setup with the Bergamini quite ready to float, and the FREMM-FR already floating… Note also (as said up here) that the FR version may be more cheaper for a foreing contry (look Marocco Navy) specially Brazil how have a strong relation at the moment with France (KC-390 and Rafale possible exchange)… The OPVs are amazing!!! I personally saw the UAE version in Muggiano Shipyard and I can say that for this race They can win… |
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| Author: | Philbob [ June 28th, 2011, 7:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Brazil fleet rebuild 2011 |
@glaciefires: you need to post more pictures then. |
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| Author: | Philbob [ June 28th, 2011, 7:18 pm ] | |
| Post subject: | Re: Brazil fleet rebuild 2011 | |
I chose a mixed package, as France has its frigates which are already built, the fleet tanker is a real contender, and the Brazilian navy already operates French built vessels, as well as former British vessels, but the only ship Britain has to offer now is the River class OPV. I'm sure Britain will do all it can to push foreward Type 26 frigate. Subs I believe will be from France, or Germany. There aren't many conventional sub designs, the only country with experience now is Germany, as well as Japan, Sweden but both last countries never sold subs abroad.
They are aleardy getting subs from France. THe UK can offer a tanker but most of the UK's shipbuilding is now preocupied with the CVF's, France probably has its hands full with the new Mistral BPC and FREMM's, and gowinds, and SSG/SSN programs..... so I think Italy is the only one who could provide the Tanker.
To cap it all Frigates and tanker from France OPV from the UK Submarines Germany or France. |
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