Shipbucket :: Dutch Navy unveils M-frigate replacement concept

Author:

Colombamike [ November 12th, 2013, 8:34 pm ]

Post subject:

Re: Dutch Navy unveils M-frigate replacement concept

Vossiej wrote:

My take at the M-frigate replacements. I based the design of H.Heusers ships, as they have a very realistic future feeling to it. [ img ]

Hmmm,
In term of SIZE, your 155/165 meters (7000/9000 tons) design look more a late 2020's/early 2030's Dutch large destroyer replacement for the 2000's De Zeven Provinciën class FFG...

PS: your ship-draught look very "large/deep"

Vossiej wrote:

The ship has to be able to operate for up to a year away from her homeport.

YES,
In the future, the infamous "much bigger but fewer & busy ships" rule.
Some warships expected to operate far away from her homeport for 9 to even 12 months aboard.
Think long-range !!!

Vossiej wrote:

Specs:
Displacement: around 7,000 tonnes
Length: around 160 m
Beam: 19 m
Draft: 5.5m
Propulsion: CODGLAG (2x Gas turbines, 2x Electric motors, 4x Diesel generators, 1x bowthruster)
Speed: 22 knots on diesel only, 33 knots max
Range: 4,000 NM (7,400km)
Complement: 90 (standard crew), 150 max
Sensors & decoys
- SHR Satcom
- ESM Surveillance
- Integrated Communication Antenna System (ICAS) (IFF/L16/VHF/UHF Antennas)
- Advanced Phased Array Radar X-band MFR
- TV&IR Surveillance
- Seamaster 400 (SMILE) S-band MFR
- Navigation radar
- Low Frequency Active Passive Sonar (LFAPS)
Electronic warfare & decoys
- TKWA/MASS (Multi Ammunition Softkill System)
- Sabre EW/ECM
Armament
1x 127mm lightweight Otobreda naval gun with guided VULCANO ammunition for land-attack missions (range: more than 100 km (62 mi))
1x 76mm Oto Melara STRALES with both conventional and guided DART ammunition (range 16 km)
2x 30mm Thales Goalkeeper CIWS
4x 12.7mm Hitrole-NT remote controlled machine gun turrets
32cell Mk-41 VLS with a combination of RUM-39C VL-ASROC and RGM-109E Tactical Tomahawk
32cell Mk-48 VLS with RIM-162 Evolved Sea Sparrow Missiles
Boats & helicopters
2x NH90 Nato Frigate Helicopters equipped for SAR/ASW/ASuW
4x Thales Interceptor Autonomous Surface Vessels
2x Fast Raiding Interception and Special Forces Craft (FRISC)

For a M-Frigate replacement, think:
- 125/145 meters
- Very Highly innovative radars/sensors (the usual dutch rule about innovation), likely a full integrated phased array radar suit...
- one 76 or 127mm forward.
- one CIWS
- few MG
- around 32/48 VLS, no more
- a stealthly hull design, maybe derived/improved from the COMBATANT 12717 or the SIGMA 10514 ?
- maybe with pod
- Very highly automated crew (90 sailors).

Vossiej wrote:

Probably two or four units around 400-500 millions each. Entry of service around 2024. Life expectancy of over 30 years.

I agree (unit price around 600/700 M €)

acelanceloet wrote:

those goalkeepers are in horrible locations, with low field of fire (blocked forward by the bridge, aft by the hangar) so as they are now, I think, would be better left of.

I agree for the CIWS position. Better to replace them by a RAM aft, no more...

acelanceloet wrote:

I don't see the dutch navy using covered anchors anytime soon. the fact that you have to be able to drop them at any moment makes that you have to put so many back up systems on the hatch that it is not even funny anymore (IIRC, only the french do things like that)

Bah...

acelanceloet wrote:

the funnels look oversized, and are very much in the way of the seamaster radar on the mast.

For a DESTROYER (6000+ tons), this look good.
For a FRIGATE (3/5000 tons), this look effectively oversized...
Your M-frigate replacement need a 3/4500 tons frigate, not a ocean-going destroyer !!!

acelanceloet wrote:

I have doubts about an M frigate replacement being so capable as this one

it's huge and powerful!

I agree, Vossiej, your shipp look too big/powerfull, you need to scaled-down this design, from 155/165 meters to 125/145 meters......

acelanceloet wrote:

I also think this drawing deserves an thread of its own.

I FULLY agree

Vossiej wrote:

Hmm I can only comment about the Goalkeepers, they are placed on platforms that reach out of the main superstructure. That way they can cover about 340-350 degrees around the ship. If it deserves an own thread,, I'll leave that for the mods to decide

a 30mm CIWS (with a full deck penetration) on a (tiny/slim) bridge-wing or a sided-sponson

with 340/350° arc of fire/coverage

, it is a joke

.
At best, it was 160/180° arc of fire, not more !!!

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Dutch Navy unveils M-frigate replacement concept http://67.205.157.234/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4658	Page 3 of 4

Author:	acelanceloet [ November 12th, 2013, 12:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Dutch Navy unveils M-frigate replacement concept
well, I do not see how you could fit them on platforms as they take a lot of space (look at the belowdeck parts thread or the goalkeeper position aft on the JSS

Author:	Vossiej [ November 12th, 2013, 12:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Dutch Navy unveils M-frigate replacement concept
Hmm that's true,, I'll look into it later. It has been a long time since I've drawn anything

Author:	heuhen [ November 12th, 2013, 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Dutch Navy unveils M-frigate replacement concept
note to all, he have only used one of my old designs, and just added parts to it. and some small modification to it!

Author:	Rhade [ November 13th, 2013, 9:03 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Dutch Navy unveils M-frigate replacement concept
Pretty nice design, maybe a little heavy looking. I had no idea that Koninklijke Marine use or want to use in the future, RBS-15 missile. But I would nitpick some anti aliasing problems with descriptions and position. "q" cut in credits/name part.

Author:	Vossiej [ November 14th, 2013, 8:38 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Dutch Navy unveils M-frigate replacement concept
OK all very good comments guys thanks, as soon as the weekend starts I will start completely from scratch, in it's own topic. Heuhen: That could be correct, I based this design of an old drawing I started modifying months ago, so it is possible this is a lot like your drawing. The only thing that was left on the drawing were your initials Colombamike: I know the design does not resemble the current M-frigates in any way, but I took the Danish navy for example. Because the Dutch power on sea has diminished over the last few decades, I looked at this as a chance to reconstruct some of that ability. A navy with two of these true multi-role destroyers, backed up by four Air-defense destroyers and four large ocean-going is still pretty realistic. Also, the sheer size of these ships are because of all the extra room needed for ASV's, Helicopters, extra berths etc.

Author:	Vossiej [ November 14th, 2013, 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Dutch Navy unveils M-frigate replacement concept
I couldn't resist making a downscalled version of the original. I've taken a lot of the comments into the new one, but I will still start on a completely new version this weekend. She is now also capable of taking two containers. The design features two separate superstructures, but the ''outer superstructure'' continues were the ASVs/containers are stored. Off to making diner now

Author:	RP1 [ December 1st, 2013, 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Dutch Navy unveils M-frigate replacement concept
A note on the ship shown in the OP (images are dead now, BTW, so I'm working from my memory of them): This isn't a SIGMA design, it is the current representative M-frigate replacement and has been shown in a couple of papers on the design process and tools being used in the NL MoD. RP1

Author:	Vossiej [ December 2nd, 2013, 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Dutch Navy unveils M-frigate replacement concept
Here's a link to the site with the original images RP1: http://marineschepen.nl/nieuws/model-ve ... atten.html

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