Shipbucket

Should've posted this yesterday, but just as a reminder that on Dec. 8 it was 100 years ago since the most noble and esteemed German Vice Adm. Maximilian, Reichsgraf von Speeand his famous Deutsches Ostasiatische Eskader met with doom and destruction at the hands of Vice Adm. Sir Frederick Doveton Sturdeeand his battle cruisers....

It was a battle much closer fought than most realize.

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My Avatar:Петр Алексеевич Безобразов (Petr Alekseevich Bezobrazov), Вице-адмирал , царская ВМФ России(1845-1906) - I sign my drawings as Ari Saarinen

Yes Thanks for the reminder Bezobrazov. Plenty of significant WW1 centenary events coming up over the next few years.

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Really? I thought it was a comprehensive victory thanks to the BC's.

We should post the order of battle here

RN
Two battlecruisers -HMS Invincible, HMS Inflexible
Three armoured cruisers - HMS Kent, HMS Cornwall's, HMS Carnarvon
Two light cruisers -HMS Glasgow and Bristol
One grounded pre-dreadnought - HMS Canopus

KM
Two armoured cruisers - SMS Scharnhorst, SMS Gneisenau
Three light cruisers - SMS Dresden, SMS Leipzig, SMS Nurnberg.
Three transports

Not sure you can say it should be close ? 12' v 8.3' guns will always decide it IMO. (and the British are faster as well)

Bezo is quite right, Von Spee's decision to run handed the tactical advantage to Doveton-Sturdee and Von Spee's Squadron was doomed. If Von Spee had concentrated on keeping the Brit forces bottled up in harbour, and inflicting any damage they could on the British ships, Von Spee may have been able to keep the advantage of surprise working for him. If von Spee could have gained enough time he could have withdrawn late afternoon and disappeared into the night.

The advantage of firing at ships in harbour is the lack of movement. Much easier to hit. Ships moving on the open sea are much more difficult targets.

You'd thing the Battle of River Plate would have convinced people that there's more to it than gun calibre and armour thickness.

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Source Materiel is always welcome.

Well, it was, in truth von Spee's close friend, KzS Julius Maerker who, as skipper of the SMS Gneisenau, and in charge of the forward detachment, lost his heart (virtually!), upon seeing the fired up smokestacks of the two Invincibles (though far from ready to get ahead or anything!). Maerker decided to turn tail and so von Spee had no other recourse but to concentrate his force, in anticipation of the emergence of the two BC:s. Maerker had been opposed to the foray against Port Stanley, and was said (amongst other by Commander (Korvettenkapitan) Hans Pochhammer to have ill omens about that operation...

In other words, very much as Krakatoa hints: a pure chance of Fate...
Anyway, let us remember that the Spee's paid an incredibly dear price for this defeat: not only did the noble Vice Admiral perish, but so did his two sons Otto and Heinrich. A world apart, in Germany, a widower, who had yet to know the fate of her husband and sons also died that same evening, eradicating that family branch altogether...

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My Avatar:Петр Алексеевич Безобразов (Petr Alekseevich Bezobrazov), Вице-адмирал , царская ВМФ России(1845-1906) - I sign my drawings as Ari Saarinen

Hi all,

I'd thought that Canopus had helped in changing the mind of certainly the Gneisenau's commander, as she was taking fire from Canopus, which was taking shots from cover at the mouth of the harbour? It'd certainly increase the risks in the execution of any plan to keep the Invincibles bottled up...

Regards,
Adam

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