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AU Confederate Navy, maybe for SB? http://67.205.157.234/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1089 |
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Author: | Carthaginian [ April 25th, 2011, 9:09 pm ] |
Post subject: | AU Confederate Navy, maybe for SB? |
Here's a ship that I put together as part of a larger AU that I'm working on. It's not in Shipbucket style/format (it is '2 pixel:1 foot' scale, 'cause that's all I draw in anyway); but if it seems I can bring it (and the others that I'm planning) up to Shipbucket standards without too much extra work, I might go for it. I have an entire alternative history worked out for the setup, and the ships follow it. The Tennessee was the first 'modern' Confederate battleship. Similar to the British Royal Sovereign class, these ships have open barbette mountings and fixed loading angles and positions. The Tredgar Armory 13"/L34 '1000-pounder' main guns were the largest that the Confederacy could produce domestically; British 13.5"/L35 guns were considered undesirable due to the requirements of 1.) Royal Navy construction having priority and 2.) slowly straining relations between the Confederacy and British Empire over the so-called 'Cotton Laws.' Secondary armament was limited to only eight domestically produced Selma Iron Works 6.4"/L35 '125-pounder' breech loaders. On the Tennessee class, unlike on their British cousins, these were provided with fully enclosed positions with local armor of 4" and 2" splinter protection for backs and sides. Protection was extremely important, with the main belt being fully 10' high and 14" thick, extending for 212' of the ship's overall 350' length. An upper belt of 8" ran the 142' between the fore and aft barbettes, and 3" armor protected the ends outside the main belt. The armored deck was 3" thick, extending from the end of the raised fo'c'sle to 50' short of the stern. The conning tower was 14" thick and two decks high. The Tennessee's greatest downfall were their engineering plant. At a time when triple-expansion engines dominated naval engineering, the Confederacy deliberately used single-expansion plants in these ships to lessen maintenance costs. This resulted in a rather large portion of the vessel being devoted to propulsion, and as such the space below the armored deck was extremely cramped. SPRINGSHARP REPORT Tennessee, Confederate States of America Ironclad laid down 1886 Barbette ship Displacement: 9,600 t light; 9,990 t standard; 10,800 t normal; 11,448 t full load Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught 350.00 ft / 350.00 ft x 70.00 ft x 24.00 ft (normal load) 106.68 m / 106.68 m x 21.34 m x 7.32 m Armament: 4 - 13.00" / 330 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1,000.00lbs / 453.59kg shells, 1886 Model Breech loading guns in open barbettes on centreline ends, evenly spread 8 - 6.40" / 163 mm guns in single mounts, 125.00lbs / 56.70kg shells, 1886 Model Breech loading guns in deck mounts on side, all amidships 10 - 2.25" / 57.2 mm guns in single mounts, 5.00lbs / 2.27kg shells, 1886 Model Quick firing guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts Weight of broadside 5,050 lbs / 2,291 kg Shells per gun, main battery: 60 Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 14.0" / 356 mm 212.00 ft / 64.62 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m Ends: 3.00" / 76 mm 138.00 ft / 42.06 m 10.00 ft / 3.05 m Upper: 8.00" / 203 mm 142.00 ft / 43.28 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m Main Belt covers 93 % of normal length - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: - - 12.0" / 305 mm 2nd: 4.00" / 102 mm 2.00" / 51 mm - 3rd: 0.25" / 6 mm - - - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 14.00" / 356 mm Machinery: Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines, Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8,300 ihp / 6,192 Kw = 16.03 kts Range 4,120nm at 10.00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 1,458 tons (100% coal) Complement: 529 - 688 Cost: £1.105 million / $4.418 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 646 tons, 6.0 % Armour: 3,921 tons, 36.3 % - Belts: 2,000 tons, 18.5 % - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 % - Armament: 739 tons, 6.8 % - Armour Deck: 1,035 tons, 9.6 % - Conning Tower: 147 tons, 1.4 % Machinery: 1,612 tons, 14.9 % Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,340 tons, 30.9 % Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,200 tons, 11.1 % Miscellaneous weights: 80 tons, 0.7 % Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 10,072 lbs / 4,569 Kg = 9.8 x 13.0 " / 330 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.35 Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m Roll period: 13.2 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.29 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.49 Hull form characteristics: Hull has raised forecastle Block coefficient: 0.643 Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 18.71 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 47 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length): - Stem: 15.00 ft / 4.57 m - Forecastle (14 %): 15.00 ft / 4.57 m (12.00 ft / 3.66 m aft of break) - Mid (50 %): 12.00 ft / 3.66 m - Quarterdeck (14 %): 12.00 ft / 3.66 m - Stern: 12.00 ft / 3.66 m - Average freeboard: 12.43 ft / 3.79 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 93.0 % - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 80.6 % Waterplane Area: 18,646 Square feet or 1,732 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 87 % Structure weight / hull surface area: 130 lbs/sq ft or 637 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0.91 - Longitudinal: 2.18 - Overall: 1.00 Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily |
Author: | ezgo394 [ April 25th, 2011, 10:47 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: AU Confederate Navy, maybe for SB? |
LONG LIVE THE CONFEDERACY!!!! Sounds great! I would love to see it done in SB scale, and in FD scale for your modern army . |
Author: | Carthaginian [ April 26th, 2011, 4:13 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: AU Confederate Navy, maybe for SB? |
134 views, and no comments. Yeah, I'll STFU. |
Author: | acelanceloet [ April 26th, 2011, 4:22 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: AU Confederate Navy, maybe for SB? |
no need to. I'd love to see more, but I just don't know enough about these kinds of ships to give a useful comment |
Author: | Carthaginian [ April 26th, 2011, 4:48 pm ] | |
Post subject: | Re: AU Confederate Navy, maybe for SB? | |
no need to. I'd love to see more, but I just don't know enough about these kinds of ships to give a useful comment
LOL- pre-dreads are rather rare on shipbucket... issues I am looking for help with are mostly the following:1.) SHADING - am I doing it right? What needs to be changed to make it more realistic and less like, well, a drawing. 2.) COLORS - I pilfered those from (I believe) a French ship but they just don't look right. Is there a 'color chart' around? 3.) UNDERHULLS - yeah... uhm, for me it would be easier to build the darn ship, and then build a submarine to take the underhull photos. Tips on drawing them? So far, the following ships are almost 'ready for consumption,' an additional 3-4 are in planning stage. Remember- all are WIPs and change a little every day till they feel right. C.S.S. South Carolina 1876 - first Confederate 'battleship,' armed with 4x1x12" MLR in casemates in the old 'ironclad' style. C.S.S. David White 1885 - the first CSN ship with torpedoes as primary weapons and all quick-fire guns, also the last with sails. C.S.S. John Lowe 1887 - a powerful torpedo-armed gunboat for Gulf/Caribbean patrols, with very short endurance due to her size. C.S.S. Byscane 1884 - first protected cruiser without sails and carrying a uniform armament of 10x1x6.4" 125-pounder guns. C.S.S. Torpedo Ram #1 1890 - the CSN's first torpedo boat destroyer, intended to be deployed against USN vessels on the Chesapeake. |
Author: | ALVAMA [ April 26th, 2011, 5:20 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: AU Confederate Navy, maybe for SB? |
Wow! Those looks really really great! well done! I'll be open to see more from your designs! |
Author: | Carthaginian [ April 26th, 2011, 5:51 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: AU Confederate Navy, maybe for SB? |
OK... Tennessee is about to get redone- I checked some source material and the main guns have to be redrawn a bit to adjust for a slight caliber change. She'll go onto a Shipbucket template as well when the alterations are complete. The South Carolina actually started me off on this project. She was inspired by a picture of the H.M.S. Belleisle, which was from the same period and, being designed for the Mediterranean, would have been perfect for the Gulf/Caribbean region. A few hours of tweaking the design in Springsharp, and I came up with something that looked very Confederate and very seaworthy for my little subtropical world. I've got an entire map of North America drawn out regarding how the continent developed differently because of the Confederate victory (a.k.a. England threatening to squash the Union like a bug over the Trent Affair). Deseret becomes a reality (with some help from the Confederacy and Canada), and a Mormon theocracy develops separating California and the Oregon Territory from the rest of the Union. These territories unite and form a nation on the West Coast, eventually expanding to the northern part of the Snake River Valley and gaining a small border with their former masters; clashes with the Mormons are constant and, early on, prevent supplies from the Union from reaching Sacramento. Russia remains in control of Alaska (until 1917) and the Kingdom of Hawai'i is independent and woefully weak. Mexico is able to become somewhat stronger without an overwhelming United States to control their destiny. |
Author: | eltf177 [ April 26th, 2011, 6:44 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: AU Confederate Navy, maybe for SB? |
I like these, I really enjoy pre-1900 designs. Given the limited technology it's hard to get good designs without doing a lot of calculating. Looking forward to more! |
Author: | Thiel [ April 26th, 2011, 9:06 pm ] | |
Post subject: | Re: AU Confederate Navy, maybe for SB? | |
C.S.S. Torpedo Ram #1
The forward scuppers aren't going to work with the turtleback bow. They'd most likely be smashed in first time it took a dive.1890 - the CSN's first torpedo boat destroyer, intended to be deployed against USN vessels on the Chesapeake. I personally think the torpedo armament is rather heavy, at least if torpedo boats are going to be its primary target. I'd replace one set of tubes with a heavier piece of artillery. A 2-3" Quick-firer should give you an edge against Northern destroyers. And since the north still possesses the industrial edge, you're going to need it. A breakwater abeam the conning platform would make it far easier to man the midship guns. As it is the forward gun will most likely be unworkable in even moderate seas. A searchlight is a must, and given that the radio has yet to be invented, you might even want to include a semaphore. |
Author: | bezobrazov [ April 26th, 2011, 10:22 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: AU Confederate Navy, maybe for SB? |
Re: you map: since I'm myself something of a CW-buff, I noticed that you didn't include West Virginia. Shouldn't this part have been relinquished back to the CSA - inspite of its overwhelmingly Unionist sentiment? Or was there some sort of monetary compensation made? Otherwise I like the idea and even have the outlines for a class of armored cruisers built along Sir Philip Watts' lines in the offing... |
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