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darthpanda
Post subject: Re: Vir Inter AstrumPosted: December 8th, 2013, 10:02 pm
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Shipright wrote:
Are there any space dedicated fighter designs? I have looked through the wiki and haven't found any. While the trans atmospheric ones are good for certain things they really are limiting themselves for space missions in some severe ways.

I ask as I am currently trying to design my own and am curious to see what you might have come out with.
I do not think space dedicated fighter is any use in real space battle, in the Earth atmosphere a fighter aircraft move much faster and have the same fire power as warship. But unlike aircraft and ship, space fighter and space warship will operate in the same medium.

That meant they all bound to the mass to thrust ratio, space fighter is small compare to a space warship. They're certainly more manoeuvrable than Large space warship, but a light or medium space warship will have bigger propulsion unit and better mass to thrust ratio:

That meant they will have the same manoeuvrability as a space fighter.

Further more space warship will have more fire power, armour, shield and sensor because of the bigger power plant for the energy supply. Space fighter is too small to carry big enough power plant to provide energy for energy weapon that strong enough to take out a space warship or provide shield for protection.

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nighthunter
Post subject: Re: Vir Inter AstrumPosted: December 8th, 2013, 11:28 pm
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Nice work on the Squall, DP! Going to finish the Crusader? :P

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Shipright
Post subject: Re: Vir Inter AstrumPosted: December 9th, 2013, 3:32 am
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darthpanda wrote:
Shipright wrote:
Are there any space dedicated fighter designs? I have looked through the wiki and haven't found any. While the trans atmospheric ones are good for certain things they really are limiting themselves for space missions in some severe ways.

I ask as I am currently trying to design my own and am curious to see what you might have come out with.
I do not think space dedicated fighter is any use in real space battle, in the Earth atmosphere a fighter aircraft move much faster and have the same fire power as warship. But unlike aircraft and ship, space fighter and space warship will operate in the same medium.

That meant they all bound to the mass to thrust ratio, space fighter is small compare to a space warship. They're certainly more manoeuvrable than Large space warship, but a light or medium space warship will have bigger propulsion unit and better mass to thrust ratio:

That meant they will have the same manoeuvrability as a space fighter.

Further more space warship will have more fire power, armour, shield and sensor because of the bigger power plant for the energy supply. Space fighter is too small to carry big enough power plant to provide energy for energy weapon that strong enough to take out a space warship or provide shield for protection.
This is an age old arguement in the scifi world but I have noticed a few things that made me think you were not taking things entirely realistically (as in leaving some things open for flavor purposes). You kind of have the same problem I described in reverse in your world as you described then, as any fighter sadled with the extra equipment to operate in a vacuum would be entirely outclassed by a purpose built atmospheric fighter planet side. Not to mention with the laser tech described atmospheric fighters are at the mercy of any ship in orbit or AA site on the ground.

So when you say carrier in this universe you are really just saying planetary assault ship?


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nighthunter
Post subject: Re: Vir Inter AstrumPosted: December 9th, 2013, 5:15 am
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Nope, Shipwright, we mean Carrier, with an ability to defend against other capitol ships. It carries fighters, strike craft, Early Warning, as well as CODs and Electronic Warfare craft. It is not a planetary assault ship. Those are different, and also can defend themselves against other capitol ships.

This is a planetary assault ship:
[ img ]

These are carriers:
[ img ]
[ img ]
[ img ]

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darthpanda
Post subject: Re: Vir Inter AstrumPosted: December 9th, 2013, 9:41 am
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Shipright wrote:
This is an age old arguement in the scifi world but I have noticed a few things that made me think you were not taking things entirely realistically (as in leaving some things open for flavor purposes). You kind of have the same problem I described in reverse in your world as you described then, as any fighter sadled with the extra equipment to operate in a vacuum would be entirely outclassed by a purpose built atmospheric fighter planet side. Not to mention with the laser tech described atmospheric fighters are at the mercy of any ship in orbit or AA site on the ground.

So when you say carrier in this universe you are really just saying planetary assault ship?
No, that is my personal few on space fighters.

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- RHKAAF / HKGFS - 皇家香港輔助空軍 / 政府飛行服務隊
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Shipright
Post subject: Re: Vir Inter AstrumPosted: December 9th, 2013, 1:32 pm
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nighthunter wrote:
Nope, Shipwright, we mean Carrier, with an ability to defend against other capitol ships. It carries fighters, strike craft, Early Warning, as well as CODs and Electronic Warfare craft. It is not a planetary assault ship. Those are different, and also can defend themselves against other capitol ships.
Sorry, I had assumed due to his excellent drawings darthpanda was invovled in the project and was speaking as to the universe in question. I had previously assumed there was in fact space fighter combat.

That being said, I would ask you the same question regarding the existance of dedicated space fighter models.
darthpanda wrote:
No, that is my personal few on space fighters.
Ah, well I don't want to hijack this thread for a general discussion on space fighter feasibility, but needless to say their utility is based solely on the rules of the SciFi universe in question, the harder the science the less useful the fighter generally being the trend.

However, if you view space fighters as more analogous to FAC/FIACs instead of atmospheric fighters and tailor their roles accordingly even hard scifi can find uses for them.


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darthpanda
Post subject: Re: Vir Inter AstrumPosted: December 9th, 2013, 3:55 pm
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nighthunter wrote:
Nice work on the Squall, DP! Going to finish the Crusader? :P
Cruisader? Which cruisader?

BTW, I haven't seen any assault vehical, somthing like the "Repubic gunship LAAT" from star wars

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- Victorian Navy - LINK
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- RHKAAF / HKGFS - 皇家香港輔助空軍 / 政府飛行服務隊
- Gunbucket - LINK

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Shipright
Post subject: Re: Vir Inter AstrumPosted: December 9th, 2013, 5:41 pm
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I think drop pods would be required for equipment expected to be operational upon insertion in both the "traditional" mobile infantry sense but also other equipment. I go back to the transatmospheric fighers, making their hull and structure strong enough to survive reentry would involve a lot of wasted weight and other technical costs for there intended atmospheric and space combat roles.

Perhaps a sled that breaks up after reentry? This would also allow for really quick insertions to avoid orbital and ground based defenses, switching to oboard capabilities when low enough to survive.

This would also be a good time to point out the SciFi rule about any propulsion system powerful enough to be interesting on a space scale is equally interesting as a weapon. I haven't seen much in regards to the speeds these fighters can achieve but given some at least are for space combat their engines are going to be laying waste or at least poisoning any planet whose atmpsphere they are operating it? Do they work on SW repulsor type system or are they scalable like ST?


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darthpanda
Post subject: Re: Vir Inter AstrumPosted: December 12th, 2013, 8:23 am
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[ img ]
Shipright wrote:
However, if you view space fighters as more analogous to FAC/FIACs instead of atmospheric fighters and tailor their roles accordingly even hard scifi can find uses for them.
I do believe that is practical, hind behind the planet or moon and strike fast and hard, just like the modern missile boat.

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- Victorian Navy - LINK
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- RHKAAF / HKGFS - 皇家香港輔助空軍 / 政府飛行服務隊
- Gunbucket - LINK

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darthpanda
Post subject: Re: Vir Inter AstrumPosted: December 12th, 2013, 11:19 pm
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[ img ]

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Worklist:
- Victorian Navy - LINK
- ROC/Taiwan - 中華民國空軍 / 陸軍航特部 / 海軍航空兵 - LINK
- RHKAAF / HKGFS - 皇家香港輔助空軍 / 政府飛行服務隊
- Gunbucket - LINK

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