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Blackbuck
Post subject: Re: Republic of Denton: RevisitedPosted: July 25th, 2012, 8:21 am
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Nice to see my nation template still being used. I don't see the numbers you have for your armed forces working at all. As Trojan says they are overly optimistic. Most countries of your size have GDP/Budget ratios of between 1.5% and 3.5%, you've got almost double the average. You could in theory get away with a lot less on all three fronts and still have an effective military.

With regards to your navy outline my thoughts on strength are as follows. 25-30,000 personnel, 10-12 frigates, 4-6 DE subs (no SSBNs for the love of God), 8-10 OPVs and a fair few inshore vessels, 2 or 3 multi purpose amphibious warfare vessels (Absalons or Absalons on steroids and maybe a decent sized LPD) a few MCMs (maybe combine then with the OPV role) a couple of LSTs or other large beachable landing ships which would be useful in a humanitarian crisis on one of the many islands / areas. 4-6 full time support ships (fast oilers and the like) and the remainder of what you need handed over to the merchant marine / auxiliary navy.

Anyway... Carry on!

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ezgo394
Post subject: Re: Republic of Denton: RevisitedPosted: July 25th, 2012, 12:53 pm
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Thanks for the feedback :)
Ok, several things. 
The navy is based off of the JMSDF, because they had about the same number of personnel.
With the amount of ships, I thought it wasn't too far off (although I do realize that one Kiev displaces as much as 4 Hyugas). 
I do want to stress, though, that the aviation cruisers are not carriers. They are helicopter carriers, and the JMSDF has 4 of them! At any rate though, maybe 4 is too many. I'll look at the advice given and figure something from that. 
Concerning the expenditures, I have not changed the old figures. I do agree that 2% ($24 Bn), 1.5% ($18Bn), or 1% ($12 Bn) would be better. 
Lastly, do you really think I have too much personnel? I really don't mind downsizing it, but I figured that the navy might as well be a little bit larger, compared to the rest of the military. 

I'll work on some revised numbers and post them here when I get the chance.

Thanks for your help!

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Salide - Denton - The Interrealms

I am not very active on the forums anymore, but work is still being done on my AUs. Visit the Salidan Altiverse Page on the SB Wiki for more information. All current work is being done on Google Docs.
If anyone wishes for their nations to interact with the countries of the Salidan Altiverse, please send me a PM, after which we can further discuss through email.


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Colosseum
Post subject: Re: Republic of Denton: RevisitedPosted: July 25th, 2012, 1:50 pm
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Give yourself 3 destroyers, 4 frigates and a few LSTs. Maybe some missile boats.

There you're done.

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Rowdy36
Post subject: Re: Republic of Denton: RevisitedPosted: July 25th, 2012, 1:54 pm
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The biggest problem I can see with basing your military strength on that of Japan's is that they have about 8 times the population with which to support it and, arguably, a higher threat level. Maybe try looking at the forces of Australia and Canada (both western countries with large economies and a 'smallish' population base - similar I think to what you are going for here) to get a feel for what you could get away with - I think somewhere between 50,000 and 65,000 for the whole armed forces would be a reasonable figure.

This is all just my opinion however - so feel free to utilise or ignore as you see fit - because at the end of the day it is your AU :)

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ezgo394
Post subject: Re: Republic of Denton: RevisitedPosted: July 25th, 2012, 2:52 pm
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Well, I still have to work on the history, and that will determine if I have any 'enemies' that require me to be "on my toes" and whether not I need a largish military. To keep the suspense, I may try to do that, and say that maybe an asian or a middle eastern country just hates my guts.

For my new figures, I will say that I at least want to have one or two helicopter carriers, either slightly smaller, or the same size as the Kiev, to have a 'Flagship' and Fleet Leader.

After looking at eswube and Blackbuck's advice, here's what I figured.

3 Heavy Aviation Cruiser
4 Destroyers
10-12 Frigates
1 LPH or LSD
3 Landing Ship (Tank)
5-8 Submarines
2-4 MCM
8-12 OPV
1-2 Hospital Ships
3 Oilers

As it is, I figure I would have 2 Task forces, one south/west and the other north/east, set up like this:
1 HAC
1 Cruiser
1 Destroyer
2 Frigates

The other ships would most likely form an Amphibious Force like this:

1 Destroyer
2 Frigates
1 LPH or LSD
2 Landing Ship (Tank)
And for humanitarian missions, I would most likely throw in the hospital ship, and a few more frigates.

For personnel, I think I'll reduce it to 35,000 with a MSC of about 7,500
TBH, I do not want to have a 10 ship navy. I want to have something that can show a good force projection, and keep a good presence in the Pacific. I do like eswube's idea of having part of the fleet on reserve/refitting/updating so I might do that.


I also went ahead and reduced my military size to 1% active and 0.5% Reserve. Here are the updated figures

Army: 65,000
Air Force: 35,000
Navy: 35,000 + 7,500 MSC
Airborne: 5,000
Coast Guard: 10,000

Army Reserve: 30,000
Air Force Reserve: 15,000
Navy Reserve: 15,000
Airborne: 2,500
Coast Guard Reserve: 5,000

National Guard: 50,000


Does this sound more reasonable? Thanks for your help!

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Salide - Denton - The Interrealms

I am not very active on the forums anymore, but work is still being done on my AUs. Visit the Salidan Altiverse Page on the SB Wiki for more information. All current work is being done on Google Docs.
If anyone wishes for their nations to interact with the countries of the Salidan Altiverse, please send me a PM, after which we can further discuss through email.


Last edited by ezgo394 on July 26th, 2012, 5:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Trojan
Post subject: Re: Republic of Denton: RevisitedPosted: July 25th, 2012, 5:01 pm
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It's more reasonable for sure but I still prefer what blackbuck said which is about the composition of the Chilean navy which has a similar population actually larger and possibly very real threats and rivals
No real nation has that large a navy with that population in turns of ships unless I missed some and while there are many more factors towards military strength i hope what I said somewhat applies ANC is true. Ps if a middle eastern nation hated your guts im not sure that would warrant having a quite large navy
Just trying to help make this au as realistic as possible

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ezgo394
Post subject: Re: Republic of Denton: RevisitedPosted: July 25th, 2012, 7:20 pm
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It's pretty close to what Blackbuck said. The only thing is my addition of 2 HACs, 2 cruisers and 4 destroyers. I used fewer frigates, submarines and only one LPD than he specified, and filled in those spaces with the Destroyers and Cruisers. I kept a slightly higher number to make up for the extra crew on the HACs.

The middle eastern country thing was just an example. I mean like the cold attitude that Russia and America had toward each other in the Cold War.
And I thank you for your help Trojan. I do want to make this as reaslistic as possible, but I do want to make some compromises concerning bigger ships like the Aviation Cruisers and Destroyers. It may be a little on the big side for a country of this size, but hey.. Why not? :D

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Salide - Denton - The Interrealms

I am not very active on the forums anymore, but work is still being done on my AUs. Visit the Salidan Altiverse Page on the SB Wiki for more information. All current work is being done on Google Docs.
If anyone wishes for their nations to interact with the countries of the Salidan Altiverse, please send me a PM, after which we can further discuss through email.


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Trojan
Post subject: Re: Republic of Denton: RevisitedPosted: July 25th, 2012, 7:30 pm
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Well u specified 5-8 subs and he says 6 thats not really less and the two to four frigate difference I dont feel equals four destroyers
However I don't wanna create an argument with you over your au so feel free to leave at is
I understand u do wanna include some irregular aspects in terms of fleet composition and thats perfectly fine so Carry on I'm glad what I said was appreciated
Looking forward to some drawings

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ezgo394
Post subject: Re: Republic of Denton: RevisitedPosted: July 25th, 2012, 7:37 pm
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Help is always appreciated ;) . Thank you.
Now that I'm getting my navy actually figured out, I do look forward to getting a ship or two soon.

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Salide - Denton - The Interrealms

I am not very active on the forums anymore, but work is still being done on my AUs. Visit the Salidan Altiverse Page on the SB Wiki for more information. All current work is being done on Google Docs.
If anyone wishes for their nations to interact with the countries of the Salidan Altiverse, please send me a PM, after which we can further discuss through email.


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travestytrav25
Post subject: Re: Republic of Denton: RevisitedPosted: July 25th, 2012, 8:07 pm
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With a navy of that size and capabilities, you could count on having icy relations with China. The PRC wants to be the ONLY naval power in the Pacific, so you could count on a negative response from them if you start building a decent navy, much like their response to the recent stationing of US Marines and Navy personnel in Australia. They can't stand that US can operate fleets anywhere in the Pacific and Indian Ocean areas with total impunity, which is part of the reason why they're greatly expanding their navy. So, there's a potential AU enemy for you right there.


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