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Psilander
Post subject: Re: Imperial Swedish NavyPosted: October 14th, 2011, 9:47 am
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We could play around abit and give the hustler a decent bombay, internatal fuel load etc...that could fun. A more conventinal approach...maybe a FFVS licensened built B-58

What do you think about this deal.
In the late 1960s-early 70s the US wants to withdraw the B-58 from service due the airframes don't like the stress of the low level strikerole. Sweden decides to buy a number of surplus airframes and give them an upgrade with a new type om comformal pod/ bombay/fueltank, radar, ESM/ ECM and missile capailty with either 8x RB 04 - later rb 15 or 4x rb 08. They are also given capability to carry conventional bombs and some avionics upgrade.

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TimothyC
Post subject: Re: Imperial Swedish NavyPosted: October 14th, 2011, 10:20 am
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Portsmouth Bill wrote:
The Vigilante was a decent kite, at least in the latter recon variant with increased range; but IIRC it didn't have a conventional bomb bay, but a novel affair where the nuclear load was 'extruded' out the rear (no comments :| ).
You could rework it for a conventional bomb bay. It would take time and money, but it could be done. Worst case you turn it into a fuel bay.
Portsmouth Bill wrote:
The wing pylons carried fuel tanks but I don't know about being wired for weapons.
It could be done.
Portsmouth Bill wrote:
Out of all the contenders I would opt for either the FIII or, a developed Buccaneer: more powerful engines, stretched airframe, new wings, and avionics. I have a drawing of this if anyones interested.
The Privateer!
Portsmouth Bill wrote:
I liked the Hustler, one of the most elegant looking bombers of its day, but I can see why it wore out with low level operations. Maybe over the Artic it wouldn't be such a problem if you're looking at a standoff role beyond range of Soviet shipborne sam's? I can just see a Swedish badged Hustler :)
Yep, the airframe just wasn't designed for low level ops. It would also give the Soviets fits about having super sonic bombers that close to the border. Alas to get the Swedes the planes they have to open up and admit that they are a part of NATO.
Psilander wrote:
We could play around abit and give the hustler a decent bombay, internatal fuel load etc...that could fun. A more conventinal approach...maybe a FFVS licensened built B-58

What do you think about this deal.
In the late 1960s-early 70s the US wants to withdraw the B-58 from service due the airframes don't like the stress of the low level strikerole. Sweden decides to buy a number of surplus airframes and give them an upgrade with a new type om comformal pod/ bombay/fueltank, radar, ESM/ ECM and missile capailty with either 8x RB 04 - later rb 15 or 4x rb 08. They are also given capability to carry conventional bombs and some avionics upgrade.
Don't forget that they have the wing-root pylons. That's four 4 meter long, one tone munitions hard points.

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Portsmouth Bill
Post subject: Re: Imperial Swedish NavyPosted: October 14th, 2011, 5:29 pm
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It could be argued that the Hustler was an 'odd ball' in USAF service, being based in Spain to get the range, but still with some good airframe hours before being forced into low level op's. So maybe yes; in this scenario Sweden is a favoured ally, having fought as part of the Allies in WWII; then the Hustler becomes available; plenty of joint work, refurbishment, new engines? new avionics, and new pods with ssm's designed to strike at Soviet naval forces off the Nowegian coast. If it worked it would give the Russian Northern fleet a serious cause for concern, and by that an added edge to NATO.

BTW. Australia was offered surplus B-47's while the FIII was being sorted; wisely they leased F-4's instead. So don't forget that there were a very large fleet of mothballed B-47's available as well - close to the TU-16.


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TimothyC
Post subject: Re: Imperial Swedish NavyPosted: October 14th, 2011, 5:54 pm
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Portsmouth Bill wrote:
It could be argued that the Hustler was an 'odd ball' in USAF service, being based in Spain to get the range, but still with some good airframe hours before being forced into low level op's. So maybe yes; in this scenario Sweden is a favoured ally, having fought as part of the Allies in WWII; then the Hustler becomes available; plenty of joint work, refurbishment, new engines? new avionics, and new pods with ssm's designed to strike at Soviet naval forces off the Nowegian coast. If it worked it would give the Russian Northern fleet a serious cause for concern, and by that an added edge to NATO.
The Hustler was in many ways an interim solution for an operational concept that went away (that of the high speed high altitude bomber). The F-111 came out of the long range fleet defense fighter need and the USAF desire for a tactical strike plane that could hit targets in Europe from the continental US, and only late took on the low end of the strategic bomber force.
Portsmouth Bill wrote:
BTW. Australia was offered surplus B-47's while the FIII was being sorted; wisely they leased F-4's instead. So don't forget that there were a very large fleet of mothballed B-47's available as well - close to the TU-16.
The Australians were also offered B-58s in the competition for their strike aircraft. I could see the Swedish order being from the same production batch as the Australian order. It gets the planes built later, and to NATO export standards.

Do the Swedes go for the bomb in this time line?

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Psilander
Post subject: Re: Imperial Swedish NavyPosted: October 14th, 2011, 8:40 pm
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interesteing comparison to Australia.

Regarding the "bomb" I think it is needed concerning the high profile conservative goverment in cold war Sweden. The main launch platform for nukes are submarines with SLBM and SLCMs. If the B-58 can carry swedish nukes are classified ;-)

WIP B-58 in swedish colors.

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TimothyC
Post subject: Re: Imperial Swedish NavyPosted: October 14th, 2011, 9:08 pm
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I'm not sold on the nose. I'm also not sure the pod would be fully integrated as you have it . I could see a more conformal pod being used, but even then we would see the seams.

I've got a pair of good resources here, and here.

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Psilander
Post subject: Re: Imperial Swedish NavyPosted: October 15th, 2011, 6:56 am
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Ok....I have to rework the nose and cockpit - to large windscreens.

There are seems, the darker colored line shows the seem between the mainbody and weapons/ ECM/ fueltank.

My source

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Hood
Post subject: Re: Imperial Swedish NavyPosted: October 15th, 2011, 3:27 pm
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What about the SAAB A-26?

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Portsmouth Bill
Post subject: Re: Imperial Swedish NavyPosted: October 15th, 2011, 3:42 pm
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Yes! this looks the business; and will only improve. I'm also assuming that this type would serve both in the Naval service (Marinen), and with the Air Force? If we are looking at nuclear weapons there could be a serious turf war between the services.


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Psilander
Post subject: Re: Imperial Swedish NavyPosted: October 15th, 2011, 5:18 pm
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The B-58 will serve with the Navy as a martime strike aircraft, flying from bases like F4 at Frösön in the north of Sweden, close to the Norwegian border, launching numerous of cruise missiles aganist the red fleet if they try to break out in the Atlantic. A a first line of defence before own and NATO carriers arrive

The airforce realies on Avro Vulcans and SAAB A-36 bombers and ICBMs for the strategic role. Nukes are launched by submarines. The armed forces tries to avoid lots of nukes on home soil because they make a potiential first strike target therefor they operate from the St.Bart based SSBN force.

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