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Grays Harbor HMS "Anton Freeling"
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Author:  Zephyr [ December 18th, 2011, 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Grays Harbor HMS "Anton Freeling"
Captains Class Armoured Cruiser HMS Anton Freeling

CONCEPT: After their less than satifying experience with the undersized, undergunned, underpowered and underusefull Matchlesses, the Admiralty decided, after evaluation, that the concept was not flawed, just the ship. The idea of having dedicated flagships for Colonial Protection Squadrons in lower threat areas was not entirely wrong.
Not wanting to dole the RN's battle fleet out in penny-packets, they wanted something large enough to provide for all essential flag functions on station but without the cost of keeping a battleship or battle squadron in an area unlikely to require that much firepower.
The class itself, while rated as "battlecruisers" in the pennant numbering system, are more of an enlarged and upgunned heavy cruiser.

DESIGN: I used many elements from the HMS Edinburgh as I like that design, and as this class is pretty much nothing more than an enlarged standard cruiser. Armor protection is about equivelent to that of a heavy cruiser. Armement is heavier, probably 2 x twin 13.5", to afford them the means of outranging and deterring attacks from potential enemy cruisers and raiders. It is not designed to stand in the line of battle with or against true battleships. It has an extended hull (670' vs. 613') from the Edinburgh as well as a modified Edinburgh superstructure. I added the pole mast From the Furious and rearmed it with 4 x 13.5" instead of the 12 x 6". I also moved the seaplane catapult from the normal midships area to the stern because I believe that to be a more efficient location.

Knowing that the thought will arise, I would like to say that these are not intended to be copies of the "Fishers Follies" large light cruisers. They are designed not as fast heavily armed raiders, but as flagships. More along the lines of the C&C functions served by the US Blue Ridge class, except better armed. The heavier guns are just there to provide some extra punch that light cruisers or destroyers could not provide. Also, I want to point out that while Grays Harbor does have a Royal Navy, and is loosely based on, and inspired by, the real Royal Navy, it is not the real Royal Navy, so slavish devotion to RN standards and practices is not a requirement.

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Author:  APDAF [ December 18th, 2011, 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grays Harbor HMS "Anton Freeling"
I would not use the 13.5 inch guns as they where not in use.
Author:  Zephyr [ December 18th, 2011, 5:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grays Harbor HMS "Anton Freeling"
APDAF wrote:
I would not use the 13.5 inch guns as they where not in use.
Not the Royal Navy, not the RW UK. This is an AU.

That said though, I am not wedded to the 13.5" guns as I was vacillating between that and triple 12". I went with the twin 13.5" mostly because of the size constraints of the magazines and felt that serving twin guns might be better than serving large triples. But, I am open to discussion on a better suited main armament. I don't want anything smaller than 10" though, so as to set them apart from standard heavy cruisers.
Author:  APDAF [ December 18th, 2011, 5:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grays Harbor HMS "Anton Freeling"
I know it is an AU but those guns are outmoded.

Try 14 inch doubles.
Author:  ALVAMA [ December 18th, 2011, 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grays Harbor HMS "Anton Freeling"
APDAF wrote:
I know it is an AU but those guns are outmoded.

Try 14 inch doubles.
:Bleedinghurtingpainfulleyesmeandead:
Author:  SrGopher [ December 18th, 2011, 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grays Harbor HMS "Anton Freeling"
"54 guns were still in existence in 1939 along with six turrets removed from HMS Tiger and HMS Iron Duke and placed in storage at Rosyth." - Navweaps.com RN 13.5"/45 page.
There is nothing wrong with using surplus guns if they were acquired previously. In fact, it looks like a nice large cruiser design that has a great role as a way to get big guns to sea quickly.

As for the triple 12" gun idea, that might would be pushing it on the hull. But if you add some width, then you have a nice vessel depending on volume of fire and mild caliber more so than one depending on heavy hitting and large caliber–more beneficial when dealing with lightly armored fast cruisers.
Author:  Carthaginian [ December 18th, 2011, 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grays Harbor HMS "Anton Freeling"
Zephyr-
Hmmmm... looks like an attempt to make the Courageous class into a real, workable cruiser. While I wouldn't think this would be a particularly useful ship, it might be something worth building for foreign stations... especially in the South Pacific for bringing heavy guns to multiple locations for fire support.
I would consider pulling some of the armor from the bow to extend the armor belt to cover the entire area under the aft barbette. As it is, it doesn't look like the entire aft magazine is protected.
There's an awful lot of empty space between the aft 13.5" turret and the floatplane catapult; maybe a good addition to a refit would be some anti-aircraft weaponry in that area? As any attempt to fire the aft main guns will result in the loss of the floatplane, it might not be considered too 'risky' to station a pair of 40mm AA there.

Not a design I can really get behind technically... but a creative use of available resources.
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APDAF wrote:
I would not use the 13.5 inch guns as they where not in use.

I know it is an AU but those guns are outmoded.
Try 14 inch doubles.
Uhm... please go back to the Germano-British Empire. :roll: This guy at least is making a ship that is extremely possible under reasonable economic considerations and the laws of physics.
Author:  Portsmouth Bill [ December 18th, 2011, 7:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grays Harbor HMS "Anton Freeling"
I've already given my thoughts to Zephyr by pm, but yes, for this size hull I would suggest 15-in main guns, as these were pretty damned good compared to anything below that calibre. That aside, an interesting concept, and full marks for ingenuity :)
Author:  Raxar [ December 18th, 2011, 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grays Harbor HMS "Anton Freeling"
This is quite likely the most plausible AU ship posted in begginers for quite some time. Great draw so far.
Author:  Zephyr [ December 18th, 2011, 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grays Harbor HMS "Anton Freeling"
APDAF wrote:
I know it is an AU but those guns are outmoded.

Try 14 inch doubles.
Just a question. Were the 13.5's on the Dunkerques outmoded too? Far as I can recall, those were a new design specifically for those cruisers.
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