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My first Frigate
http://67.205.157.234/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1289		 Page 1 of 8
Author:  HMS Sophia [ June 1st, 2011, 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  My first Frigate
I thought I would put this here, since it is the first design I have actually drawn all on my lonesome.
It's using a... melange of parts. Dutch and English mainly (well, entirely).
I need some help though.
The idea is a patrol and escort frigate.
I'm unsure about the copter. It uses a lot of space. I like the main gun though, And the mast looks pretty good.
I'd like to give it a missile armament of some sort, and the side ridge by the bridge will probably hold a 20mm gun or something.
[ img ]
It's a bit square... ho-hum. Tell me what you think.
Author:  acelanceloet [ June 1st, 2011, 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My first Frigate
what you have currently is an corvette. frigates tend to be a bit larger :P
btw, you should use the newest drawing of the oto melara gun (it is on the dutch parts sheet and some other places...)
these ships are meant as carrier escorts, right? if so, why not leave the hangar on the carrier and use only an helideck?
for british missile systems: I don't know a lot about those (I know mainly about the US ones, as the dutch use those), but the best would be something like sea sparrow, I guess.

btw, the bow seems somewhat short and the funnel somewhat large. the radar systems are suited for an patrol boat, but you'll need heavier radars if you are going to take missiles on board and give it an frigate role.
Author:  HMS Sophia [ June 1st, 2011, 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My first Frigate
Corvette is actually the word I was looking for :P But Frigate was the only thing I was thinking of.
Right, so, helideck (just a clear bit at back?)
Shrink the stack
That is the newest drawing. I found it on your parts sheet after all. It's dropped slightly, as there is some difference between the tallest of the bow and the actual deck if that makes sense.
I'll be mounting either sea wolf or sparrow then. not sure which.
And I'll extend the bows :)
Author:  acelanceloet [ June 1st, 2011, 9:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My first Frigate
then you have looked at an outdated version of my dutch sheet. keep in mind that the latest drawing is the latest posted, so on page 10 currently. the helideck is shown by an clear spot and the helideck railing, of course. keep in mind that the heli is shown flying is no hangar is on board.
Author:  HMS Sophia [ June 1st, 2011, 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My first Frigate
Got the new gun, extended the bow, deleted the hanger, added sea wolf (because sea slug is bloody enormous), shrank the stack a bit, made the lynx fly. See what you think :)
[ img ]
Author:  acelanceloet [ June 1st, 2011, 10:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My first Frigate
much better!
now a few things I would do, take them as ideas instead of the former, which was advice:
- move the stack to the center of the ship.
- merge the foot of the mast with the stack, so move the stack a bit forward
- put the gun a bit more to the back, and the structure slightly forward. that way you create an longer free bow and an larger helideck, both of which will make this ship look better
- add an air search radar on top of the mast (or is that one already? I am not familiar with british systems)
- put an gun director on top of the bridge (oto melara has their own, those are the best I think)
Author:  Thiel [ June 1st, 2011, 10:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My first Frigate
You're going to have range and endurance issues on such a small hull.
As a rule of thumb your escorts should have about the same endurance as the carrier they are supposed to escort and they have to be able to operate in even heavier weather than the carrier since they have to be able to defend the carrier even when weather shuts down flight ops.
This will require a larger hull.
Also, with a range of 10km and a flight ceiling of 3000ft Sea Wolf isn't going to cut it for fleet defence, so you'll need a more capable weapon like Sea Slug or Sea Viper depending on timeframe.
This too will require a bigger hull.
You'll also need enough speed to keep up with the carrier. The only way to fit a large enough engine and retain enough endurance is to further enlarge the hull.
You can probably see where this is going by now, and we haven't even gotten to the electronics.
In short there's a reason why modern escorts are as big as they are.

Mind, there's nothing wrong with the basic design you've made, you've just designed a patrol boat and not a carrier escort.
Author:  HMS Sophia [ June 1st, 2011, 10:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My first Frigate
I'll shift the stack forward a bit, to the edge of the mast.
I'll shift the gun back a bit. Do you mean push the bridge structure forwards?
It's a surface/air search radar. Built by... BAe systems, them lovely people :P. Saves space by being a combo.
I'll add the gun director... If you could point me at it? I'm being particularly dense :P

here is the result of some of the changes:
[ img ]

Thiel, I'm happy with this being a patrol boat rather than a fleet escort. I'll make a 100m carrier escort at some point later (tomorrow). I'll edit the name on my next update. Have you got any advice for a patrol boat? I.e. what I need for this drawing?
Author:  Thiel [ June 1st, 2011, 11:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: My first Frigate
It obviously depends on where it'll be patrolling and what other assets it can call upon.
Generally speaking a patrol boat needs long range and endurance compared to a "true" warship of the same displacement.
Range is usually achieved by optimizing the machinery for slower speeds and avoiding gas turbines in favour of diesels. A cruise speed of about 15kts is usually sufficient.
Endurance is gained by carrying less weapons and using the displacement for more spacious crew quarters.
In your case I'd ditch the SeaWolf. If you want a limited air defence capability you should use manpads instead.
Electronics wise you'll need a basic comms suite, preferably Link 11/22 capable, though that isn't a requirement. A basic combined air and surface search radar backed up by a civilian nav radar should be enough.
To me an IR capable EO device is a must. They are great for SAR and patrol work and since you aren't going to be shooting at anything you can't see it's also perfectly capable of directing your gun.
A RHIB is another must have. It's an absolute necessity for fishing people out of the water and it makes it much easier to send boarding parties onboard other ships. It also have the speed to catch most of the thing the patrol boat can't. Whether you go for a stern ramp or something simpler like davits should depend on just how bad the weather tends to be in your patrol area.
how much helo support your ship should have is harder to decide. On one hand even a simple light helicopter ads significantly to the ships capabilities but they also need quite a bit of crew to operate and are quite expensive. Personally I'd go for at least a helo pad and refuelling systems since this will allow you to act as a fuel station during a SAR operation, which will greatly increase the helo's efficiency. It's also a great way to evacuate wounded people.
Author:  TimothyC [ June 2nd, 2011, 1:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: My first Frigate
What you've got now is close to a small Floréal. The Floréals were Frigates, but only on a technicality. They're good for the colonial sloop mission, and for the anti-piracy mission but not so good as an escort.
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