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HMS Belfast, 1980s Guided Missile Cruiser Conversion (Alternate History) http://67.205.157.234/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=11088 |
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Author: | USS_Dogwater [ August 14th, 2024, 1:35 pm ] |
Post subject: | HMS Belfast, 1980s Guided Missile Cruiser Conversion (Alternate History) |
I already had this idea floating around in my head for a few months and I even had some rough traced-over pencil sketches of what something like this might look like. I even did a 700+ word document on the alternate history that led to this being a thing, although it is worth noting that in hindsight, the story doesn't really add up. Either way, it's quite a lot to unpack.
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Author: | acelanceloet [ August 14th, 2024, 5:18 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: HMS Belfast, 1980s Guided Missile Cruiser Conversion (Alternate History) |
A few comments: - Mk 13 launchers are never mounted flat on the deck, but are always on a small supporting structure. The aftmost mount seems to have this, the others have not. Look at real ships with the launcher. - Mk 13 GMLS have a plenum vent, that vents the blast out if a missile would turn on in the magazine. I suspect those might be visible, at the very least at the aft and middle launchers. - You don't have a sonar capable of guiding ASROC - While I like the use of my hard work on the front view of the SPG-51, showing some directors facing the side and some of them facing forwards is not great for recognising them as the same director. - The text on the image should read: Great Britain, Edinburgh Class HMS Belfast 1986 after post-Falklands modernisation. (Portsmouth Bill, USS Dogwater) |
Author: | heuhen [ August 14th, 2024, 6:03 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: HMS Belfast, 1980s Guided Missile Cruiser Conversion (Alternate History) |
and why the need to do anything with the funnels, if the powerplant is new and different (some would never happen, it's part of the ship), the entire funnel would be redesigned. the are no space to add some extra diesel generators, the entire engine room is full of, engine actually, the steam generator can be updated-upgrade a bit |
Author: | USS_Dogwater [ August 14th, 2024, 8:33 pm ] | |||
Post subject: | Re: HMS Belfast, 1980s Guided Missile Cruiser Conversion (Alternate History) | |||
Thanks for the information - I'll keep all this in mind and revisit this down the road as I learn more. Regarding the Mk.13 GMLS's supporting structure, I wasn't aware of that, and I should've done more research and used more reference material; I am looking at Colosseum and Bezobrazov's drawing of the USS South Carolina (1997 configuration) and they seem to have done a good job of illustrating the supporting structure, especially the aft launcher. I'm also aware of there being a plenum vent on the Mk.13 GMLS although I'm not sure if it vents out through a hole in the deck; I've seen some of those cutaway drawings as well as photos of the Mk.13 mounted to an Oliver-class FFG. The thing about the ASROC, I'll admit, is a bit contrived, but I did include it in the "backstory." Whether this is something the ASROC system was actually capable of, or whether this system was entirely reliant on the host ship's sensors, is something outside of my scope of knowledge; I'm in college and have no military or defense industry experience whatsoever.
Targeting information was provided over datalink from escorting ships and accompanying ASW helicopters.
Regarding the AN/SPG-51, I was on Discord asking about it, and someone told me that each Mk.13 needed 2 or more directors to be the most effective. As a result, I decided that I was going to find a way to put 6 directors (rather than replacing one of the Mk.13s with something else. Atop the bridge, there are, in fact, three AN/SPG-51s; only two are visible because the starboard-facing director obscures the third director facing the port side. Once again, I'm open to feedback, and I will make changes down the road and revisit this piece at a time of my choosing.
A few comments:
- Mk 13 launchers are never mounted flat on the deck, but are always on a small supporting structure. The aftmost mount seems to have this, the others have not. Look at real ships with the launcher. - Mk 13 GMLS have a plenum vent, that vents the blast out if a missile would turn on in the magazine. I suspect those might be visible, at the very least at the aft and middle launchers. - You don't have a sonar capable of guiding ASROC - While I like the use of my hard work on the front view of the SPG-51, showing some directors facing the side and some of them facing forwards is not great for recognising them as the same director. - The text on the image should read: Great Britain, Edinburgh Class HMS Belfast 1986 after post-Falklands modernisation. (Portsmouth Bill, USS Dogwater) |
Author: | USS_Dogwater [ August 17th, 2024, 9:39 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: HMS Belfast, 1980s Guided Missile Cruiser Conversion (Alternate History) |
Thanks for your insights, I welcome the feedback. The exhaust stacks/funnels were fitted with an IR cooling module and some kind of filter; I thought something like this would prevent soot and fumes from damaging and interfering with the radars, sensors, and antennas. The exhaust stacks themselves would have received some kind of internal structural reinforcement to accommodate the extra weight - I could change that and add external bracing to the stacks if necessary. As for the diesel generators, you're probably right about that and I should have thought it through. When I revisit this piece, I'll add an actual spec sheet to the ship and reflect the changes accordingly.
and why the need to do anything with the funnels, if the powerplant is new and different (some would never happen, it's part of the ship), the entire funnel would be redesigned.
the are no space to add some extra diesel generators, the entire engine room is full of, engine actually, the steam generator can be updated-upgrade a bit |
Author: | heuhen [ August 18th, 2024, 8:28 am ] | ||
Post subject: | Re: HMS Belfast, 1980s Guided Missile Cruiser Conversion (Alternate History) | ||
Thanks for your insights, I welcome the feedback. The exhaust stacks/funnels were fitted with an IR cooling module and some kind of filter; I thought something like this would prevent soot and fumes from damaging and interfering with the radars, sensors, and antennas. The exhaust stacks themselves would have received some kind of internal structural reinforcement to accommodate the extra weight - I could change that and add external bracing to the stacks if necessary.
For that you need to redesign the funnel totally, not just add something on it. The entire funnel and what's bellow deck is part of the reduction of IR signature, by colling of the funnel. But during that time periode searching for IR signature isn't as advance as it is today. It's is only in more modern time (generaly) we see IR-reduction being more relevant. I will say around 90's and upThe funnel design doesn't really have anything to do with IR signature, and any enginers that will incoperate something like that, will try their best to design it so it fit with the ship designe, then just adding a block onto it and ruin the classic line for the ships. |
Author: | eswube [ August 19th, 2024, 9:41 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: HMS Belfast, 1980s Guided Missile Cruiser Conversion (Alternate History) |
Design issues are one thing, but there's a reason why this drawing has red note: "corrupted drawing, do not use" in the bottom right corner. And now You've made it even more corrupted. |
Author: | USS_Dogwater [ August 22nd, 2024, 12:18 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: HMS Belfast, 1980s Guided Missile Cruiser Conversion (Alternate History) |
Understood - I think you pointed it out to me on Discord the other day. With this in mind, I think I'll have to shelve this thing and cancel any plans I have to rework this piece and incorporate all the fixes. I have some of the changes requested by Acelanceloet on file, but knowing this, I will not proceed any further. Nevertheless, I hope this isn't bad for my first try. I've also learned a fair bit from this exercise, and I hope to, someday, pull something off from a clean sheet instead of modifying existing pieces. Thank you once again,
Design issues are one thing, but there's a reason why this drawing has red note: "corrupted drawing, do not use" in the bottom right corner.
And now You've made it even more corrupted. |
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