Shipbucket

this drawing is made for fun. so yes it is what it is.

Hi all,

And now, a side-by-side comparison - the (slightly updated) 203mm version and the "maomatic" 128mm DP version. I know which one I prefer, but I'd appreciate your thoughts:






Regards,
Adam

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NSWE: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5695

Nice job!

The second version is my favourite, as I think it has a more "plausible" beam...

Keep it up!

Thanks Maomatic,

Mine too, it certainly looks more like a cruiser than the top one. Many thanks for the suggestion, I'd have never even tried it if you hadn't said...

Also, here's the WIP of the predecessor heavy cruiser (I was starting to wonder if I'd broken Beginner Drawings, so figured I'd potter about with something else for a while) - while definitely intended for surface action, it's carrying quite a few 128mm DP (which the springsharp says are shielded, and will indeed be, once I draw the shield and replace the stand-in with the shielded model) indicating the concern that the AU designers had even at the earlier stages about the effect of air power.



SpringSharp wall of text:
PanzerSchiff 1944, New Prussia Heavy Cruiser laid down 1944

Displacement:
14,671 t light; 15,648 t standard; 17,424 t normal; 18,846 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
700.93 ft / 672.57 ft x 73.82 ft x 25.59 ft (normal load)
213.64 m / 205.00 m x 22.50 m x 7.80 m

Armament:
9 - 7.99" / 203 mm guns (3x3 guns), 268.96lbs / 122.00kg shells, 1934 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
28 - 5.04" / 128 mm guns (14x2 guns), 57.32lbs / 26.00kg shells, 1940 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
20 - 2.17" / 55.0 mm guns (10x2 guns), 4.41lbs / 2.00kg shells, 1944 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
20 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (10x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1942 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 4,145 lbs / 1,880 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 475.72 ft / 145.00 m 9.97 ft / 3.04 m
Ends: 0.98" / 25 mm 196.85 ft / 60.00 m 9.97 ft / 3.04 m
Upper: 1.97" / 50 mm 475.72 ft / 145.00 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 109 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
0.98" / 25 mm 475.72 ft / 145.00 m 22.54 ft / 6.87 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 7.87" / 200 mm
2nd: 5.04" / 128 mm 2.52" / 64 mm 5.04" / 128 mm
3rd: 2.17" / 55 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 2.17" / 55 mm
4th: 1.57" / 40 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -

- Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 9.84" / 250 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 98,237 shp / 73,285 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 19.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,198 tons

Complement:
757 - 985

Cost:
£8.799 million / $35.195 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 528 tons, 3.0 %
Armour: 4,124 tons, 23.7 %
- Belts: 1,154 tons, 6.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 390 tons, 2.2 %
- Armament: 1,208 tons, 6.9 %
- Armour Deck: 1,230 tons, 7.1 %
- Conning Tower: 143 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 2,509 tons, 14.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,511 tons, 43.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,753 tons, 15.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
29,767 lbs / 13,502 Kg = 116.6 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 4.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.04
Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 16.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.80
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.45

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.480
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.11 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.89 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 32.50 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 39.37 ft / 12.00 m
- Forecastle (25 %): 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Mid (60 %): 29.53 ft / 9.00 m (19.69 ft / 6.00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Stern: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 26.57 ft / 8.10 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 220.5 %
Waterplane Area: 33,773 Square feet or 3,138 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 130 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 134 lbs/sq ft or 655 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.92
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Regards,
Adam

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NSWE: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5695

Well, it's been a busy little while, moving house and all ... and I think I've just noticed I've blundered.



As posted earlier, these ships are intended to spend a lot of time in quite rough weather, being required to make transits via Cape Horn. The requirements for quite good seakeeping mean that the bow and stern are comparatively long, resulting in quite a short superstructure.

Given that, I think I've messed up the floatplanes - Would a USN-style arrangement with the catapults aft and the hangar belowdecks work on a ship this size? If so, that'd let me sort out the aft weapons, which are a bit of a mess, to be honest, and I think they'd be better situated on the aft superstructure.

Oh, also, radars and stuff - The antenna is wider to narrow to focus and try and produse a usable return from greater distance, which is also the reason for the bigger-than-usual radar office (I figured they'd ship bigger-than-usual klystrons - if axis had cavity magnetrons some elements of the war would have gone differently)

Any comments on the WIP?

Ad

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NSWE: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5695

Hi all,

Yes, I have eventually done some more on the drawing - anything to add, anything to take away, more importantly, is it of a standard where you'd be happy seeing it on a ship bucket template?



While the crane is not copied directly from BB1987's excellent Montana it is definitely inspired by it - do I need to credit for that? Also, if it does meet the standard, will clean off the roughed-in plan and the miscellaneous parts, of course, when templated.



PanzerSchiff 1944, New Prussia Heavy Cruiser laid down 1944

Displacement:
14,671 t light; 15,648 t standard; 17,424 t normal; 18,846 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
700.93 ft / 672.57 ft x 73.82 ft x 25.59 ft (normal load)
213.64 m / 205.00 m x 22.50 m x 7.80 m

Armament:
9 - 7.99" / 203 mm guns (3x3 guns), 268.96lbs / 122.00kg shells, 1934 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, majority aft, 1 raised mount aft - superfiring
28 - 5.04" / 128 mm guns (14x2 guns), 57.32lbs / 26.00kg shells, 1940 Model
Dual purpose guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
20 - 2.17" / 55.0 mm guns (10x2 guns), 4.41lbs / 2.00kg shells, 1944 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
on side, evenly spread
20 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns (10x2 guns), 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1942 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 4,145 lbs / 1,880 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 250

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 3.94" / 100 mm 475.72 ft / 145.00 m 9.97 ft / 3.04 m
Ends: 0.98" / 25 mm 196.85 ft / 60.00 m 9.97 ft / 3.04 m
Upper: 1.97" / 50 mm 475.72 ft / 145.00 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 109 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
0.98" / 25 mm 475.72 ft / 145.00 m 22.54 ft / 6.87 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 3.94" / 100 mm 7.87" / 200 mm
2nd: 5.04" / 128 mm 2.52" / 64 mm 5.04" / 128 mm
3rd: 2.17" / 55 mm 1.18" / 30 mm 2.17" / 55 mm
4th: 1.57" / 40 mm 0.79" / 20 mm -

- Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 9.84" / 250 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
Electric motors, 2 shafts, 98,237 shp / 73,285 Kw = 32.00 kts
Range 7,000nm at 19.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 3,198 tons

Complement:
757 - 985

Cost:
£8.799 million / $35.195 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 528 tons, 3.0 %
Armour: 4,124 tons, 23.7 %
- Belts: 1,154 tons, 6.6 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 390 tons, 2.2 %
- Armament: 1,208 tons, 6.9 %
- Armour Deck: 1,230 tons, 7.1 %
- Conning Tower: 143 tons, 0.8 %
Machinery: 2,509 tons, 14.4 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 7,511 tons, 43.1 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,753 tons, 15.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
29,767 lbs / 13,502 Kg = 116.6 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 4.2 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.04
Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
Roll period: 16.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.80
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.45

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has rise forward of midbreak
and transom stern
Block coefficient: 0.480
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.11 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 29.89 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 32.50 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 39.37 ft / 12.00 m
- Forecastle (25 %): 29.53 ft / 9.00 m
- Mid (60 %): 29.53 ft / 9.00 m (19.69 ft / 6.00 m aft of break)
- Quarterdeck (20 %): 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Stern: 19.69 ft / 6.00 m
- Average freeboard: 26.57 ft / 8.10 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 220.5 %
Waterplane Area: 33,773 Square feet or 3,138 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 130 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 134 lbs/sq ft or 655 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.93
- Longitudinal: 1.92
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily


Regards,
Adam

_________________
Public Service Announcement: This is the preferred SB / FD font.

NSWE: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5695

Looking good adam! I think you could take a little sheer off the bow and and maybe add another main battery turret up front in a Admiral Hipper type setup. Neither are needed changes but I think it might create a more balanced look.

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Projects:
Zealandia AU
John Company AU
References and feedback is always welcome!

Hi Trojan,

Those turrets are actually triples (note the step at the front), not that I'd actually said that on this drawing, but that's an interesting idea, might well do an additional version. Would a 12-gun 203mm cruiser be somewhat over-gunned?

Regards,
Adam

_________________
Public Service Announcement: This is the preferred SB / FD font.

NSWE: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5695

The aircraft crane on Montana comes from the WWII USN parts sheet made by Colosseum, so crediting is not needed.

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My Worklist
Sources and documentations are the most welcome.

-Koko Kyouwakoku (Republic of Koko)
-Koko's carrier-based aircrafts of WWII
-Koko Kaiun Yuso Kaisha - KoKaYu Line (Koko AU spinoff)
-Koko - Civil Aviation

I have to say I'm intrigued by your seaplane design. It looks interesting.

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My worklist
Any help and source material is always welcome.