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ABetterName
Post subject: Re: Crovenian EmpirePosted: April 25th, 2015, 3:13 am
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Location: Konugenshafn, Nyrdanmark
What would need to be explained?

This AU is very young and most of it has yet to be written up at all.

Though having to explain things will certainly help the process.

Edit: The map in the first post has been updated.

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Last edited by ABetterName on April 26th, 2015, 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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JSB
Post subject: Re: Crovenian EmpirePosted: April 25th, 2015, 9:56 am
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What's the plan with your navy ?

You are a large nation so can build lots of ships, but you also have very big land borders so will not be spending much of your defence budget if you are sensible on the navy (so less ships).

Don't worry this makes it interesting what do you do with a limited budget !

IMO The Crovenian Empire navy's Priorities should be (something like)

1- Control of the Black sea.
2- Threaten to attack and clear the Bosphorus (without it you are in more trouble than Russia was in WW1)
3- River warfare and coastal bombardment supporting the army
4- raiding/cruiser/showing the flag warfare in the Med and beyond

IMO this will need

- Small Battle fleet, of dreadnoughts (ie 130% of Turkey or anybody else in Black Sea) 1,2 and 3
- Mine warfare craft and light destroyers to escort the battle fleet and clear the straights 1 and 2
- Subs (and they might be able to break out to the Med ?) 1 and 4
- River gunboats (lots small) + coastal monitors (few big) to support the army 3
- a few light cruisers/AMC to support the fleet and show the flag out side the med (small so doesn't matter if they are lost/interned outside the med) 1,4
- Amphibious landing craft, 3 and 4

This leads to a design them (Look) for your navy,
- All your ships (apart from CL/AMC/Subs) can be very short range (will not operate far from your bases, Black sea is small)
- The Black Sea is clam (well compared to Oceans) so Sea keeping is less important (so you can pile on more stuff and have lower free board)
- maybe make a list of the guns/equipment your navy makes at home (and has bought) it would be better to have only a few standard calibres but if you are buying it from different people that may not work.
- etc.....

Then make a list of ships you might need.

BB - Turkey is buying 2 so we need 3 etc (or more likely a series of 1 or 2 at a time getting better as they go)
CA - ....
DD - you have a set make older and newer designs as well
Light - mine warfare craft and river gunboats (lots)
Monitors - or just old obsolete rebuilt predreadnought BBs ?

Post list, discus (everybody will have different opinions etc).


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HMS Sophia
Post subject: Re: Crovenian EmpirePosted: April 25th, 2015, 6:02 pm
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ABetterName wrote:
This AU diverges from RL timeline after the fall of Rome.
....
APDAF, is that you?

EDIT: seems not, but my god I was having flashbacks for a second.


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KHT
Post subject: Re: Crovenian EmpirePosted: April 25th, 2015, 6:44 pm
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ABetterName wrote:
What would need to be explained?

This AU is very young and most of it has yet to be written up at all.

Though having to explain things will certainly help the process.

Edit: The amp in the first post has been updated.
What need be explained? Well... everything of mentionable lasting effect unto the rest of the world, and about the history of the fictional nation of yours. Begin with this, and show us. Then we'll tell you what will and won't work, what you've missed that really should be dealt with, and generally how you can improve the story.
One of the first things to decide is what kind of nation you want your AU to be. Generally, there are two "groups"; The "original nation", which essentially creates/changes a nation(usually, but not necessarily somewhere in Europe, or somewhere in the Atlantic just west of Europe, since Europe was the origin of most super powers, and people often want to make superpowers) of moderate to superpower status; and the "former/liberated colony nation", wherein we have a nation that was once a colony of some(again, usually European) nation, which was later liberated, given independence, or what have you. An "original nation" will usually need more work, since it will most of the time be older(For my Gotrige AU I went all the way back to the 12th century) than a "former colony nation"(For my Archipelagia AU I went back to the 17th century). Once you've decided, it's time to write the story, and this will take a bit of research.
Different AU creators do this differently. I usually go with the "Here's the story of this AU nation, I tried not to force it too much, it's not exceedingly serious, it's just an excuse to draw coherent ship series, sod off"-approach. I am very open with this, and still try to avoid making too big stretches of plausibility, tending to build upon the already existing cultures and occations throughout history.
A lot of AU creators go with population numbers, nation economy, and so on. I'm not serious enough to do those things, and I honestly don't consider it a requirement. This is, first and foremost, a shipdrawing forum, and IMO, if you draw good looking ships, you can get away with a back backstory.


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ABetterName
Post subject: Re: Crovenian EmpirePosted: April 25th, 2015, 6:48 pm
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Location: Konugenshafn, Nyrdanmark
Well, here's a basic info table about Crovenia while I think about story for a few days.

Government: Empire
Economy: Mixed
Largest Import: Oil
Largest Export: Coal
GDP: 191 Billion USD
Currency: Crovenian Ruble (руб)
Population: 62 million
Ethnic Groups: Crovenian, Mozkov, Szibir, Křižovic
Education: Compulsory (5 - 18)
Capital: Solzisvy
Major Cities: Solzisvy, Veik, Lensk, Kevrushek
National Anthem:Planetside 2 TR Theme
Language: Russian
Culture: Crovenian
Demonym: Crovenian
Formation: 1735
Military Service: Compulsory (18-24)

Oh, and there will be a gap in my backstory from about 1910 to 1945 because that will be determined by an in progress nation RP.

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Last edited by ABetterName on June 9th, 2015, 10:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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eltf177
Post subject: Re: Crovenian EmpirePosted: April 25th, 2015, 7:04 pm
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I took a shot at fixing your BC Yarostnyy, it cleaned up very nicely...

*****

Yarostnyy, Crovenian Battlecruiser laid down 1911

Displacement:
31,219 t light; 32,669 t standard; 36,576 t normal; 39,702 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
590.55 ft / 590.55 ft x 114.83 ft x 34.45 ft (normal load)
180.00 m / 180.00 m x 35.00 m x 10.50 m

Armament:
8 - 12.01" / 305 mm guns (4x2 guns), 865.70lbs / 392.67kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
10 - 5.98" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 107.15lbs / 48.60kg shells, 1911 Model
Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
on side, all amidships
10 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
10 - 4.13" / 105 mm guns in single mounts, 35.32lbs / 16.02kg shells, 1911 Model
Quick firing guns in deck mounts
on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
Weight of broadside 8,350 lbs / 3,788 kg
Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 465.88 ft / 142.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
Ends: 3.94" / 100 mm 114.83 ft / 35.00 m 13.12 ft / 4.00 m
9.84 ft / 3.00 m Unarmoured ends
Upper: 3.94" / 100 mm 465.88 ft / 142.00 m 8.20 ft / 2.50 m
Main Belt covers 121 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
1.97" / 50 mm 465.88 ft / 142.00 m 29.53 ft / 9.00 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 7.87" / 200 mm 5.91" / 150 mm 7.87" / 200 mm
2nd: 5.91" / 150 mm - -
3rd: 1.18" / 30 mm - -

- Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 7.09" / 180 mm

Machinery:
Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
Direct drive, 4 shafts, 190,117 shp / 141,827 Kw = 31.00 kts
Range 4,000nm at 18.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7,034 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
1,322 - 1,719

Cost:
£3.158 million / $12.631 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 1,044 tons, 2.9 %
Armour: 8,138 tons, 22.3 %
- Belts: 2,889 tons, 7.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 1,002 tons, 2.7 %
- Armament: 2,359 tons, 6.4 %
- Armour Deck: 1,720 tons, 4.7 %
- Conning Tower: 168 tons, 0.5 %
Machinery: 8,487 tons, 23.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 13,050 tons, 35.7 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,357 tons, 14.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
47,040 lbs / 21,337 Kg = 54.3 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 6.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 8.6 ft / 2.6 m
Roll period: 16.5 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 54 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.34
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.09

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck
Block coefficient: 0.548
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.14 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 24.30 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 66 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
- Stem: 36.09 ft / 11.00 m
- Forecastle (20 %): 36.09 ft / 11.00 m
- Mid (50 %): 36.09 ft / 11.00 m
- Quarterdeck (15 %): 26.25 ft / 8.00 m (36.09 ft / 11.00 m before break)
- Stern: 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Average freeboard: 34.61 ft / 10.55 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 120.1 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 245.6 %
Waterplane Area: 47,237 Square feet or 4,388 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 183 lbs/sq ft or 893 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.88
- Longitudinal: 3.27
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Made the following changes:

- All units now metric
- Dropped ahistorical bulges
- Only half of the Main Battery is superfiring now,Main Battery now turret and barbette instead of Coles/Ericsson turrets
- Thickened Main, End and Upper Belts as well as Deck Armor
- Added TDS
- Added Barbette Armor
- Armored QF Battery

Displacement rose ~600 tons and hull space for machinery, storage and compartmentation went from adequate to cramped. However, I was able to raise speed by one knot so I feel this was a good trade off.


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ABetterName
Post subject: Re: Crovenian EmpirePosted: April 25th, 2015, 7:08 pm
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Location: Konugenshafn, Nyrdanmark
Quote:
hull space for machinery, storage and compartmentation went from adequate to cramped. However, I was able to raise speed by one knot so I feel this was a good trade off.
Nobody ever said warships were comfortable.

Although all the guns would not be 1911 model.

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"The first phase of the operation did not go as planned." - Anonymous
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ezgo394
Post subject: Re: Crovenian EmpirePosted: April 25th, 2015, 7:23 pm
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Location: Cappach, Salide
KHT raises a good point. In my Kingdom of Salide AU, it's an island just off the coast of Ireland, that would be considered an original nation, a super-power in the mid 1st millennium. I like to say that I'm good at history (I'm really not), but even then, just to do the little area from 400 to 800BCE took me 3 weeks, for an island that's smaller in area than Ireland. So if you're going to change all of Europe (and the world for that matter) over the course of 2000 years, you better buckle up! You've got a lot of work in store.

@Barnest2, that was my original thought. 'ABetterName' as a username sure seems like someone trying to start anew.

Another thing that's kind of getting on my nerves (and it may not be my place to say this) is that you don't ever answer half of the questions that people post. 95% of your posts are 2 sentences or less. This does not produce a positive image in my opinion. It means that things are going in one ear and out the other, and you're just cherrypicking the things you want to answer. If you want to gain a little more respect, answer the questions people ask you, or if you don't have and answer or don't know what to say simply say 'I don't know, I haven't thought about it.'

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Salide - Denton - The Interrealms

I am not very active on the forums anymore, but work is still being done on my AUs. Visit the Salidan Altiverse Page on the SB Wiki for more information. All current work is being done on Google Docs.
If anyone wishes for their nations to interact with the countries of the Salidan Altiverse, please send me a PM, after which we can further discuss through email.


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ABetterName
Post subject: Re: Crovenian EmpirePosted: April 25th, 2015, 7:37 pm
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Location: Konugenshafn, Nyrdanmark
I do try to take all suggestions into consideration.

My posts are short because I am autistic.

I don't expect special treatment, but since the length of my posts was brought up I thought it relevant.

_________________
"The first phase of the operation did not go as planned." - Anonymous
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HMS Sophia
Post subject: Re: Crovenian EmpirePosted: April 25th, 2015, 7:45 pm
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ezgo394 wrote:
@Barnest2, that was my original thought. 'ABetterName' as a username sure seems like someone trying to start anew.
You know what, the drawings are pretty good. I can take a crazy AU with that.


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