Anghellis Class Cruiser

Andorianus wrote:

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lets's see. first of all, you need the newdrawn parts of the APAR and SMART-L, they are in the dutch parts sheet thread.

Do you have a link? I just used the radars from the main shipbucket site, but looking at the things you guys have posted I suppose there are more parts sheets somewhere here.

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the reason your ship is short, is because you've drawn it quite compact. the AGS is at the outher edge of the bow, the hangar is small and...... you left no place for any powerplant.

Hm. I'll change that. But first redraw the ship, like you suggest.

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keep in mind the LCF is an destroyer in all but name, so you have an destroyer sized ship now. perfectly capable IMO, but I would lengthen it a bit if you want an cruiser. let's see: 170-180 meters, 160 on waterline? that would be perfect IMO.

I suppose it should be as long as neccesary to fir all the systems, really.

it is long enough for all weapons now.... but not for the powerplant, hence I suggested to resize it. keep the same size means less weapons then you have now.

Andorianus wrote:

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first we select the weapons now, as role and radars have be decided.
let's see. you'll want an multirole gun, powerfull enough for land attack but suitable far AA as well. I suggest an OTO 127 or a gun of similar size (US 4.5 inch, for example)

OTO 127 sounds good. Eh, 140mm and 120mm is the current standard in Dystopianus, so I might as well want to re-chamber the gun.

Also, would an AGS in a smaller calibre be any good?

AGS is only land bombardment. an multirole gun is better.... an 120 mm OTO 127 could work better, IMO...... as I don't know of any real life gun with 140 or 120 mm on modern ships.

Andorianus wrote:

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then we start looking at the missiles. you'll need ABM, area defence and self defence. for example : SM-3, SM-2 and ESSM, or ASTER 15 and 30.

Okay. I am not sure, but I have previously used RAM as self defence, Sea Viper as area defence, and TMS22 as ABM. Is that okay? (Not sure if RAM counts as self-defence...)

Maybe not the best choice, so if there are better options you can try to convince me.

sea viper = the ASTER system, if I'm not wrong. this gives an small problem: the APAR is not designed for use with the ASTER. but I guess it could work, need to search a bit for that.

I count RAM as CIWS though, and we will get back to that later.

Andorianus wrote:

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then you'll need ASM and ASuM. for example, harpoon and ASROC

I already chose Sea Eagle for anti-ship duties, and the K-ASROC for anti-submarine. Is that fine?

sounds good to me, I just put up all steps for future reference.

Andorianus wrote:

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the last system you might want, is the possibility to take cruise missiles. as those fit in an MK-41 VLS, I will get back to you later on those.

Hm, interesting. I thought those cruise missiles weren't much different from anti-ship missiles, but I guess there's more then just that.

cruise missiles = long range and land attack. while cruise missiles can sometimes be used as ASM missiles, their design is different.

Andorianus wrote:

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we will forget the underwater hull for now as well, but don't put anything on the drawing except for the missiles you are gonna use. no launchers whatsoever for now.

Aw, you don't like my drawing, do you?

But I understand, it's not that much of a proper SB drawing.

we will get back to your original structure when all systems are on..... you can keep that style, but not that setup

Andorianus wrote:

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then the last point for now: airwing. I would say: 2-3 UAV helicopters, and 2 antisub/LAMPS helo's. select an type, and put them in the air above the hull you have now.

So... 3 Dash helo's, and 2 Sea Hawks?

Or maybe instead of Dash something with limited transport capabilities.

What do you think of these, as of now?

sounds good, seahawk = transport. UAV doesn't need it.

oow and for the parts: viewforum.php?f=16
here you find all the stuff that isn't on the main site (yet)
the dutch parts sheet can be found in it's own thread.

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AGS is only land bombardment. an multirole gun is better.... an 120 mm OTO 127 could work better, IMO...... as I don't know of any real life gun with 140 or 120 mm on modern ships.

Well, the AGS follows a ballistic trajectory (like artillery) to reach land targets, and I reckon that would mean a lot when it comes to land attack.

Can't I use 2 different guns instead? Or use the Goalkeepers for anti-air duties?

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sea viper = the ASTER system, if I'm not wrong. this gives an small problem: the APAR is not designed for use with the ASTER. but I guess it could work, need to search a bit for that.

Oh. What radar does the ASTER use then?

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I count RAM as CIWS though, and we will get back to that later

I see. Aster 15 then.

Also, Aster 30 can appearently be used in ABM defence too? Does that mean I no longer need the TMS22?

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cruise missiles = long range and land attack. while cruise missiles can sometimes be used as ASM missiles, their design is different.

Sounds good, I think I like those.

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we will get back to your original structure when all systems are on..... you can keep that style, but not that setup

Aww... Well, I hope you don't mind I keep a copy of the original for future reference.

Thanks for helping me out. Allright, I have the new radars now. I suppose we're going to the next step?

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1. all guns use an ballistic trajectory, only ammunition (and the caliber of it) make the exact role these days.
2. aster has an active seeker, while the APAR is designed for work with missiles with an passive seeker like ESSM. it could work though (the SM-3 has an active seeker as well, IIRC)
3. don't know for sure, I should do some research on that
4. I thought so. but as tomahawks etc. fit in the MK-41, we will look at that later, as other roles are more important for now.
5. that's ok, that's even the best thing to do. I myself saved every step when I began, now I use layers so I can get back to and move older parts.
and indeed, we are going to the next step

could you post the lengthened hull? I want to show you somthing.... btw, you wanted to use azipod's right?

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all guns use an ballistic trajectory, only ammunition (and the caliber of it) make the exact role these days.

Okay, 120mm in that case.

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3. don't know for sure, I should do some research on that.

Well, Wikipedia said so. But I guess it won't be as good as a dedicated anti-missile platform.

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could you post the lengthened hull? I want to show you somthing....

Okay, here it is:
[ img ]

Lengthened it at several places, added the new radars, played around with the superstucture and masts as well. Still has the old helo's, sorry. I guess that altogether the ship is about 160m long or something in that range.

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btw, you wanted to use azipod's right?

Yes, azipods are awesome.

EDIT: Oh, btw, you wanted me to strip the ship of everything on the deck and below the waterline?
[ img ]

Done, although I hope you understand I don't like this one.

_________________
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http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz22 ... 1305479833
look: this is the next difficulty you will have with your previous design; there was no place for the powerplant. with azipods, we have the engines itself in the pods, I will look for an arrangement of those for you, as that is something not that easy..... next step will be where to place the VLS cells.

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I don't think I understand. What's the problem? I mean, to me it seems like there's enough space as long as either the reactor is moved forward or backward or the VLS is moved to the front deck. I think I'm missing something again.

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You can call me Andy.

no, you are not missing anything. you just pointed out exactly what I wanted you to know

the VLS won't fit there, and the reactor takes up a lot of space. for moving the reactor: as it is one of the heaviest things on board, the best is to put it on the center of gravity.
and this evening already (if you are online then still) we will have the base of the ship back up.

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Right then, so VLS on the foredeck and the superstructure further to the back. Point noted.

Anything else?

PS: I'm still online for 45 minutes or something.

_________________
You can call me Andy.

well, let's define the looks then, before drawing is started again. VLS on the bow, but an gun before it, and before that we need space for mooring and anchoring gear. so leave the 50 meters empty, except for these things. after that we start the bridge, or we put an platform on it for an CIWS. at the stern you'll want an 50 meter long helideck (space for all kinds of helo's) and an hangar of the same size. leave midships empty for now, I will get to that later with the powerplant.
btw, I am currently working on some propulsion system and the underwater hull for ya. will post in 10 minutes or so

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made you an underwater hull. I tried to merge the possibilities of the classic propulsion system (relative silence, efficiency) with the azipod (manouvrability) hence the pod and rudder. I ended up using some sort of azimuth system, which put's the engine outside of the pod: this uses up space, but makes your pod smaller.... but more complicated. reliability will be an issue now.... but other then that, it should work ok.

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Drawings are credited with J.Scholtens
I ask of you to prove me wrong. Not say I am wrong, but prove it, because then I will have learned something new.
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