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USS_Dogwater
Post subject: HMS Belfast, 1980s Guided Missile Cruiser Conversion (Alternate History)Posted: August 14th, 2024, 1:35 pm
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I already had this idea floating around in my head for a few months and I even had some rough traced-over pencil sketches of what something like this might look like. I even did a 700+ word document on the alternate history that led to this being a thing, although it is worth noting that in hindsight, the story doesn't really add up. Either way, it's quite a lot to unpack.

  • This alternate timeline saw the Royal Navy take over twice as many losses in the 1982 Falklands War compared to our timeline; up to 11 destroyers and frigates compared to the 4 in our timeline. Although British forces ultimately prevailed, the losses sustained left the Royal Navy vulnerable and weakened. After the war, the UK’s force regeneration capabilities were taxed to their limits – domestic shipyards were swamped with replacement orders to make up the losses, on top of having to fulfill the existing contracts from before the war. The Ministry Of Defense recognized the need for a wide-area air and missile defense platform but was stuck with obsolescent and sub-par naval SAMs like the Sea Dart, Sea Slug, Sea Cat, and Sea Wolf.

    Amid some controversy, the Ministry Of Defense decided in mid-1982 to modernize the HMS Belfast, a WW2-era light cruiser that had been a museum ship since the 1970s. This decision was made partly due to her well-kept state as a preserved museum exhibit, but mainly because other allies such as the US, France, The Netherlands, and Italy have successfully converted WW2-era gun cruisers into operational guided missile cruisers; The contract was awarded to Newport News Shipbuilding later that year. American expertise was chosen on the assumption that technology has advanced considerably since the days of the Galveston-class or Albany-class ships. Belfast was towed across the Atlantic to be drydocked, and work began in earnest in early 1983.

    The conversions were extensive - the bilge keels were lengthened and widened to compensate for the increased weight and center of gravity. The steam turbines and oil-fired boilers aboard Belfast were refreshed and supplanted by a pair of MTU 20-cylinder diesel generator sets. The sensors and combat management suite equipped to Belfast in the refit were derived from the Tartar New Threat Upgrade, as seen aboard Virginia-class cruisers and Kidd-class destroyers. The hardware included the AN/SPS-48 3D air search radar, AN/SPS-49 2D air search radar, AN/SPG-51 fire control radar, AN/SPS-55 navigation radar, and AN/SLQ-32 electronic warfare suite.

    The A-position 6-inch gun turret was replaced with a Mark 13 Guided Missile Launching System; the launcher is fed by a below-deck magazine containing 40 SM-2MR missiles. The B position was originally meant to be fitted with a 4.5-inch Mark 8 gun, but this was abandoned due to interoperability issues with the Mark 86 gunfire control system that accompanied the Tartar NTU sensor suite. The 5-inch Mark 45 was next in line for consideration but was rejected as the British did not possess 127x835mm ammunition. Thus, a second Mark 13 GMLS was installed instead, making Belfast a missile-only ship. Phalanx CIWS turrets were added to both flanks of the bridge.

    The open space between the bridge and the forward smokestack was filled with 4 Mark 143 Armored Box Launchers for a total of 16 Tomahawk land attack cruise missiles. The smokestacks themselves were heightened and fitted with an infrared suppression and cooling module. The aft smokestack’s base is flanked with a second pair of Phalanxes for a total of 4 emplacements. Early plans for the stern section to be fitted with a helipad, hangar, and towed sonar array, like the short-lived Tiger-class cruisers in the 1960s were shelved in favor of more weapons; a helipad was added. The Y position was fitted with a Mark 112 ASROC launcher, complete with a Mark 4 ASROC Weapons Handling System with 16 reloads in addition to the 8 ready rounds inside the launcher itself. Targeting information was provided over datalink from escorting ships and accompanying ASW helicopters. A third Mark 13 GMLS occupied the Z position. Belfast had a grand total of 120 SM-2MRs, making her one of the most powerful surface combatants in the world at the time.

    In July of 1986, Belfast transited the Atlantic, arriving at the port city of Belfast in August for the official handover and recommissioning ceremony; the dates were chosen to coincide with her entry into service back in 1939. The refit lasted around 3 years and cost roughly US$500,000,000 or £400,000,000 (equivalent to 1.4 billion USD or 1.1 billion GBP in 2024). While expensive, the process was 2-3 years shorter than it took to build a frigate or destroyer from scratch. After a post-acceptance shakedown cruise around the British Isles and the North Sea, Belfast departed the UK for the South Atlantic on her “maiden” deployment. Belfast would participate in Operation Desert Storm, the NATO blockade on Yugoslavia, the Kosovo War, and Operation Iraqi Freedom. Belfast was slated for retirement in 2011; the Libyan Civil War and the subsequent UN-mandated, NATO-enforced blockade on Libya was the last time she would see combat. Belfast was handed over to the Imperial War Museum in 2012 and reinstated as a museum exhibit on the Thames in 2016.


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acelanceloet
Post subject: Re: HMS Belfast, 1980s Guided Missile Cruiser Conversion (Alternate History)Posted: August 14th, 2024, 5:18 pm
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A few comments:
- Mk 13 launchers are never mounted flat on the deck, but are always on a small supporting structure. The aftmost mount seems to have this, the others have not. Look at real ships with the launcher.
- Mk 13 GMLS have a plenum vent, that vents the blast out if a missile would turn on in the magazine. I suspect those might be visible, at the very least at the aft and middle launchers.
- You don't have a sonar capable of guiding ASROC
- While I like the use of my hard work on the front view of the SPG-51, showing some directors facing the side and some of them facing forwards is not great for recognising them as the same director.
- The text on the image should read:

Great Britain, Edinburgh Class
HMS Belfast 1986 after post-Falklands modernisation.
(Portsmouth Bill, USS Dogwater)

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heuhen
Post subject: Re: HMS Belfast, 1980s Guided Missile Cruiser Conversion (Alternate History)Posted: August 14th, 2024, 6:03 pm
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and why the need to do anything with the funnels, if the powerplant is new and different (some would never happen, it's part of the ship), the entire funnel would be redesigned.

the are no space to add some extra diesel generators, the entire engine room is full of, engine actually, the steam generator can be updated-upgrade a bit


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USS_Dogwater
Post subject: Re: HMS Belfast, 1980s Guided Missile Cruiser Conversion (Alternate History)Posted: August 14th, 2024, 8:33 pm
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Thanks for the information - I'll keep all this in mind and revisit this down the road as I learn more.

Regarding the Mk.13 GMLS's supporting structure, I wasn't aware of that, and I should've done more research and used more reference material; I am looking at Colosseum and Bezobrazov's drawing of the USS South Carolina (1997 configuration) and they seem to have done a good job of illustrating the supporting structure, especially the aft launcher. I'm also aware of there being a plenum vent on the Mk.13 GMLS although I'm not sure if it vents out through a hole in the deck; I've seen some of those cutaway drawings as well as photos of the Mk.13 mounted to an Oliver-class FFG.

The thing about the ASROC, I'll admit, is a bit contrived, but I did include it in the "backstory." Whether this is something the ASROC system was actually capable of, or whether this system was entirely reliant on the host ship's sensors, is something outside of my scope of knowledge; I'm in college and have no military or defense industry experience whatsoever.
Quote:
Targeting information was provided over datalink from escorting ships and accompanying ASW helicopters.
Regarding the AN/SPG-51, I was on Discord asking about it, and someone told me that each Mk.13 needed 2 or more directors to be the most effective. As a result, I decided that I was going to find a way to put 6 directors (rather than replacing one of the Mk.13s with something else. Atop the bridge, there are, in fact, three AN/SPG-51s; only two are visible because the starboard-facing director obscures the third director facing the port side.

Once again, I'm open to feedback, and I will make changes down the road and revisit this piece at a time of my choosing.
acelanceloet wrote: *
A few comments:
- Mk 13 launchers are never mounted flat on the deck, but are always on a small supporting structure. The aftmost mount seems to have this, the others have not. Look at real ships with the launcher.
- Mk 13 GMLS have a plenum vent, that vents the blast out if a missile would turn on in the magazine. I suspect those might be visible, at the very least at the aft and middle launchers.
- You don't have a sonar capable of guiding ASROC
- While I like the use of my hard work on the front view of the SPG-51, showing some directors facing the side and some of them facing forwards is not great for recognising them as the same director.
- The text on the image should read:

Great Britain, Edinburgh Class
HMS Belfast 1986 after post-Falklands modernisation.
(Portsmouth Bill, USS Dogwater)


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USS_Dogwater
Post subject: Re: HMS Belfast, 1980s Guided Missile Cruiser Conversion (Alternate History)Posted: August 17th, 2024, 9:39 pm
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Thanks for your insights, I welcome the feedback. The exhaust stacks/funnels were fitted with an IR cooling module and some kind of filter; I thought something like this would prevent soot and fumes from damaging and interfering with the radars, sensors, and antennas. The exhaust stacks themselves would have received some kind of internal structural reinforcement to accommodate the extra weight - I could change that and add external bracing to the stacks if necessary.

As for the diesel generators, you're probably right about that and I should have thought it through. When I revisit this piece, I'll add an actual spec sheet to the ship and reflect the changes accordingly.
heuhen wrote: *
and why the need to do anything with the funnels, if the powerplant is new and different (some would never happen, it's part of the ship), the entire funnel would be redesigned.

the are no space to add some extra diesel generators, the entire engine room is full of, engine actually, the steam generator can be updated-upgrade a bit


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heuhen
Post subject: Re: HMS Belfast, 1980s Guided Missile Cruiser Conversion (Alternate History)Posted: August 18th, 2024, 8:28 am
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USS_Dogwater wrote: *
Thanks for your insights, I welcome the feedback. The exhaust stacks/funnels were fitted with an IR cooling module and some kind of filter; I thought something like this would prevent soot and fumes from damaging and interfering with the radars, sensors, and antennas. The exhaust stacks themselves would have received some kind of internal structural reinforcement to accommodate the extra weight - I could change that and add external bracing to the stacks if necessary.
For that you need to redesign the funnel totally, not just add something on it. The entire funnel and what's bellow deck is part of the reduction of IR signature, by colling of the funnel. But during that time periode searching for IR signature isn't as advance as it is today. It's is only in more modern time (generaly) we see IR-reduction being more relevant. I will say around 90's and up

The funnel design doesn't really have anything to do with IR signature, and any enginers that will incoperate something like that, will try their best to design it so it fit with the ship designe, then just adding a block onto it and ruin the classic line for the ships.


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eswube
Post subject: Re: HMS Belfast, 1980s Guided Missile Cruiser Conversion (Alternate History)Posted: August 19th, 2024, 9:41 am
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Design issues are one thing, but there's a reason why this drawing has red note: "corrupted drawing, do not use" in the bottom right corner.
And now You've made it even more corrupted. :ugeek:
[ img ]


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USS_Dogwater
Post subject: Re: HMS Belfast, 1980s Guided Missile Cruiser Conversion (Alternate History)Posted: August 22nd, 2024, 12:18 am
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Understood - I think you pointed it out to me on Discord the other day. With this in mind, I think I'll have to shelve this thing and cancel any plans I have to rework this piece and incorporate all the fixes. I have some of the changes requested by Acelanceloet on file, but knowing this, I will not proceed any further. Nevertheless, I hope this isn't bad for my first try. I've also learned a fair bit from this exercise, and I hope to, someday, pull something off from a clean sheet instead of modifying existing pieces.

Thank you once again,
eswube wrote: *
Design issues are one thing, but there's a reason why this drawing has red note: "corrupted drawing, do not use" in the bottom right corner.
And now You've made it even more corrupted. :ugeek:
[ img ]


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