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Kriegs
Post subject: Etmund Hass class destroyer escortPosted: June 30th, 2021, 10:49 pm
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hello! I've finished polishing up the ship, and I believe it's finally ready to be posted now.
My Etmund Hass class destroyer escort, for an AU which is still currently WiP.
Any constructive criticism is welcome, and many thanks to the people on the Discord that helped me weed out a lot of problems and issues early on. This is my first Shipbucket drawing.

[ img ]

85 m length
4.8 m draft
12.4 m beam
1,505 tons full

2 shafts
Top speed of 26 knots
5,300 nautical miles at 15 knots

3 x single 3"/50 DP guns
3 x quad 40mm Bofors
6 x twin 20mm Oerlikons
1 x triple 533mm torpedo launcher
2 x depth charge projectors
2 x paravanes
2 x depth charge racks
2 x "hedgehog" anti-submarine spigot mortar-type projectors
2 x smoke screen generators

Air search, surface searching radars, radio direction finding equipment and sonar.


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Idunevenknow
Post subject: Re: Etmund Hass class destroyer escortPosted: July 1st, 2021, 12:25 pm
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This is a really cool design, you have a lot of details, very cool. Unfortunately I'm still a beginner myself, so I don't really think I could give you any useful criticism, maybe try to shade a little darker since it's difficult to make out the shape and it would also add a little more depth I reckon. I hope to see more from you.


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eswube
Post subject: Re: Etmund Hass class destroyer escortPosted: July 1st, 2021, 10:48 pm
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Hi and welcome to the Shipbucket.
Artistically Your drawing looks quite nice, but design-wise I'm not convinced. Underwater part of the hull looks rather deep for a ship this size and bow would be probably very, very wet (generally deck looks rather flat). Placing of rescue equipment looks IMHO bit random (especially that dinghy hanged on the hull vis. funnel). I'm also not sure if many ships had more than one Hedgehog. Is that thing between funnel and torpedo launcher some kind of crane/hoist (because if it is, then I'm not sure what it's going to hoist there) - and speaking of funnel - I'm uncertain about the machinery arrangement on this ship?
As always, when making an own design, it's good to compare the arrangement of similar ships (of similar size and purpose).


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Kriegs
Post subject: Re: Etmund Hass class destroyer escortPosted: July 1st, 2021, 11:47 pm
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eswube wrote: *
Hi and welcome to the Shipbucket.
Artistically Your drawing looks quite nice, but design-wise I'm not convinced. Underwater part of the hull looks rather deep for a ship this size and bow would be probably very, very wet (generally deck looks rather flat). Placing of rescue equipment looks IMHO bit random (especially that dinghy hanged on the hull vis. funnel). I'm also not sure if many ships had more than one Hedgehog. Is that thing between funnel and torpedo launcher some kind of crane/hoist (because if it is, then I'm not sure what it's going to hoist there) - and speaking of funnel - I'm uncertain about the machinery arrangement on this ship?
As always, when making an own design, it's good to compare the arrangement of similar ships (of similar size and purpose).
Thank you for the feedback! I believe the hull is a few feet (3 feet last time I checked) deeper than the Buckley class destroyer escort, and I'll admit - I'm not the best at putting things where they should be. I figured that the crane would come in useful when reloading the torpedoes at port. I don't know how reasonable the machinery arrangement on the ship is either, I don't have much knowledge in that aspect, sorry.

Would you recommend me moving the funnel forward or more further down aft?


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Kriegs
Post subject: Re: Etmund Hass class destroyer escortPosted: July 1st, 2021, 11:48 pm
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Idunevenknow wrote: *
This is a really cool design, you have a lot of details, very cool. Unfortunately I'm still a beginner myself, so I don't really think I could give you any useful criticism, maybe try to shade a little darker since it's difficult to make out the shape and it would also add a little more depth I reckon. I hope to see more from you.
Thank you! I'll try to make the shading a bit more visible in the next revision.


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eswube
Post subject: Re: Etmund Hass class destroyer escortPosted: July 2nd, 2021, 8:50 pm
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First of all, 3 feet more of draught is quite a lot for a ship this size.
And Buckley is also longer. (btw. note how much higher above the waterline is deck on bow)

[ img ]

Re: crane - ok, maybe it would, but it looks rather big.
I'd suggest moving the funnel forward.
Looong ago I made some 'generic' schemes of destroyer and frigate-sized ships as an aid for people trying to do personal designs ( viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3743 ) - and I keep promising myself to expand it...

[ img ]
[ img ]

Btw. here is a method of establish approximate "safe" locations of major parts of the ship along it's length. It looks to be a bit silly method, but IMHO fairly effective (that's how I did these generic drawings). Simply speaking, on the ships of similar configuration (and period, size, purpose etc.) major components (bridge, machinery, funnel, artillery etc.) tend to be in roughly same places length-wise (within a certain margin). So if You'll look at the drawing of a ship (several different ships of similar kind for comparison) while holding a ruler in front of them in such manner, that one end of the ship will be at 0 and another at 10 (centimeters) You'll be able to notice, that - for example - Y turrets tend to be between, say, 15 and 17 milimeter, funnel between 50 and 55 milimeter and so on. And by comparing several drawings You'll notice a pattern that can be applied for your own design.
(in case of funnel - on WW2 DE's and FF's they tend to be just forward of the middle of ship's length ;) )

[ img ]


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Kriegs
Post subject: Re: Etmund Hass class destroyer escortPosted: July 2nd, 2021, 11:14 pm
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eswube wrote: *
First of all, 3 feet more of draught is quite a lot for a ship this size.
And Buckley is also longer. (btw. note how much higher above the waterline is deck on bow)

[ img ]

Re: crane - ok, maybe it would, but it looks rather big.
I'd suggest moving the funnel forward.
Looong ago I made some 'generic' schemes of destroyer and frigate-sized ships as an aid for people trying to do personal designs ( viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3743 ) - and I keep promising myself to expand it...

[ img ]
[ img ]

Btw. here is a method of establish approximate "safe" locations of major parts of the ship along it's length. It looks to be a bit silly method, but IMHO fairly effective (that's how I did these generic drawings). Simply speaking, on the ships of similar configuration (and period, size, purpose etc.) major components (bridge, machinery, funnel, artillery etc.) tend to be in roughly same places length-wise (within a certain margin). So if You'll look at the drawing of a ship (several different ships of similar kind for comparison) while holding a ruler in front of them in such manner, that one end of the ship will be at 0 and another at 10 (centimeters) You'll be able to notice, that - for example - Y turrets tend to be between, say, 15 and 17 milimeter, funnel between 50 and 55 milimeter and so on. And by comparing several drawings You'll notice a pattern that can be applied for your own design.
(in case of funnel - on WW2 DE's and FF's they tend to be just forward of the middle of ship's length ;) )

[ img ]

wow! That's a lot of helpful information. Thank you, I'll be following your suggestions - Hopefully the new drawing will be up by today or tomorrow.


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Kriegs
Post subject: Re: Etmund Hass class destroyer escortPosted: July 9th, 2021, 12:15 am
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[ img ]

(A bit late, apologies)

I'm not really sure where to bring this DE - I might just consider this a failure and start on a new DE/DD. It was a nice learning experience, but I think starting again might be better instead of changing it.


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eswube
Post subject: Re: Etmund Hass class destroyer escortPosted: July 9th, 2021, 5:34 pm
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There is some improvement, but indeed, I'd suggest maybe you could try drawing some real-world vessels (they might even represent classes that generally are already in the archive) and get more used to drawing them, also in the way how their appearance translates into SB work.
Generally in terms of following formal rules You've made a decent work (maybe if I'd look very closely I'd find some issues, but there doesn't seem to be any glaring errors style-wise, so I think You have a potential to make great works in the future.


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