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design 1047 battlecruiser, as finished postwar.
http://67.205.157.234/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5164		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  acelanceloet [ April 29th, 2014, 1:55 pm ]
Post subject:  design 1047 battlecruiser, as finished postwar.
as there seems to be some kind of battleship/cruiser arms race going on on the bucket at the moment, and the dutch had nothing to answer that with... yet....... I decided to finish this one a bit faster then it was going at first :P

the storyline is this: the Eendracht cruisers of the Dutch navy were half finished when the Germans invaded. what if apart from those, another new ship class was under construction: the 1047 battlecruisers. the first ship would have been finished until the main deck level. the German navy wanted to finish these ships instead of the P class cruisers. for this reason, the guns removed from the Gneisenau were shipped to the netherlands for installation in the new ships.

of course, construction did not go forward very much, and postwar the first hull was almost completely as pre-war. however, the main gun turrets were still at the yard, and there was nearly as much work required to complete the first ship as would be required to scrap it. the ship was completed using technology developed for it as well as for the 2 eendracht class cruisers. in 1953 the De Zeven Provincien was commisioned as the most state of the art big gun ship in the world.
[ img ]

some specs, more history and maybe some modified drawings will come soon :P
please comment, and I hope you like my new tiny bit of madness.
Author:  Rodondo [ April 29th, 2014, 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: design 1047 battlecruiser, as finished postwar.
Nice! My only objection in the aft radar might be in the soot/smoke stream
Author:  acelanceloet [ April 29th, 2014, 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: design 1047 battlecruiser, as finished postwar.
Rodondo wrote:
Nice! My only objection in the aft radar might be in the soot/smoke stream
yes, but any position high enough is in the smokestream, except for the forward mast.
Author:  MC Spoilt B'stard [ April 29th, 2014, 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: design 1047 battlecruiser, as finished postwar.
Super ship :D Next missile mod's? maybe the neverbuild Polaris conversion?
Author:  acelanceloet [ April 29th, 2014, 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: design 1047 battlecruiser, as finished postwar.
MC Spoilt B'stard wrote:
Super ship :D Next the dutch and peruvian mod's? maybe the neverbuild Polaris conversion?
who knows..... there is also an second hull in much lower state of construction, who knows what happeds with that..........
Author:  Rodondo [ April 29th, 2014, 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: design 1047 battlecruiser, as finished postwar.
True I suppose unless you (and frankly I cant see the point of doing this myself) move it further aft but again its very nice feels very 1940-completed 1950's
Author:  eltf177 [ April 29th, 2014, 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: design 1047 battlecruiser, as finished postwar.
I have to agree that radar's going to get smoked out but let's face it, there really isn't any good place to put it. They're just going to have to live with it...
Author:  Colombamike [ April 29th, 2014, 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: design 1047 battlecruiser, as finished postwar.
acelanceloet wrote:
please comment
Hmmm,
as requested :mrgreen:
[ img ]
PS: a missile-conversion is possible (technically speaking), but with a A S T R O N O M I C A L - C O S T for the Dutch (1950's) defense budget (even for the entire Dutch economy :roll: :? )
Author:  acelanceloet [ April 29th, 2014, 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: design 1047 battlecruiser, as finished postwar.
well then, colombamike allow me to reply to your comments then as well.
- helicopters are not used for the reason that the dutch did not field helicopters other then on the carrier until the van speijk class was commisioned. the cruisers could certainly have fitted helicopters, but it was chosen not to do so.
- the 'what is this' is the lichtraketwerper illumination missile launcher. fitted as on the cruisers.
- you have crossed out all the 120mm directors and replaced them with an wrongly drawn 120mm director. note that these directors were dual purpose and were used for both the cruisers and destroyers (150mm and 120mm). the only difference here is that the fore and aft one have more range, as in the cruisers.
- this can as well be seen here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/632 ... 0Class.png
- the mast setup is exactly as on the zeven provincien class, with the difference that it is modified along the lines for larger funnels and an bigger ship, as is the case here. the masts are setup somewhat heavier then that of the zeven provincien for again, bigger ship et all.
- I have chosen for 2 turrets for some reasons:
* the P class would have used only 2 each.
* one of the turrets was broken up and all 3 guns used separate in real life. this would also have been the case in this AU
* if you read the storyline you see where the 2 turrets come from.
- the 152mm were not considered AA capable. they were somewhat, just like the british guns, but never used as such because...... well, it just did not work very well. there is also literally no reason for this ship to be completed without the main guns.
- I have chosen to fit 120mm as secondary and 40mm as tertiary guns. I don't see the need for 57mm guns.
- seeing how much more capable the guided 40mm guns and 120mm guns were, the AA is upgraded from the original design. these all also served dual purpose role.
- you have included an small drawing of the old 40mm gun turret I just have replaced with an new drawing.
- the ship is literally littered with the 40mm directors. I do not know why those question marks are there. there are no 57mm directors because there are no 57mm guns.
- I have not included the liferafts on the turrets because I have included inflatable liferaft containers, as were introduced about this time.
- the boats are aft because otherwise they would interfere with the director, guns etc amidships. an huge crane could fix this, but has it's own set of problems. there is some space where they are now, and they are exactly where they were on the original 1047 class (I had not even seen that before now) so I don't see why not.
- think zeven provincien class cruiser "influence" ... look how much unlike their british counterparts these ships ended up looking.

and the missile conversion? well, the cost would be just as astronomical as the conversion of the actual zeven provincien cruiser, which was costly enough to not do it to the De Ruyter, but not costly enough to not do it.

so yeah, a bit wondering, if you go ahead and make an reply like this, kind of bashing the entire design, would you be so kind to research the idea behind it a bit? or maybe keep an eye on what all those parts are?
Author:  klagldsf [ April 29th, 2014, 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: design 1047 battlecruiser, as finished postwar.
Colombamike wrote:
as requested :mrgreen:
..oooh-boy...
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