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1936 Patrol Gunboat/Frigate
http://67.205.157.234/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1938		 Page 1 of 14
Author:  nighthunter [ September 17th, 2011, 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  1936 Patrol Gunboat/Frigate
So I figured that a good comeback since my cat died would be to draw my own version of a Patrol Gunboat/Frigate.

Built in 1936, and built to Washington Treaty Specs, it is a dual purpose vessel, a escort vessel and a coastal patrol vessel. I am having a friendly competition with VanOwen to see who will make a better PG.

Anywho here is the WIP:
Author:  Thiel [ September 17th, 2011, 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1936 Patrol Gunboat/Frigate
Not a bad looking boat, though I think you're stretching its stability to the limit.
In order to make everything fit I think you'll have to drop the X gun and the director down a level and you may have to land the B gun completely.
If memory serves the USN didn't adopt the Bofors until after they joined the war and I believe 1936 is too early for a Radar director on a minor unit like this.
Author:  nighthunter [ September 17th, 2011, 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1936 Patrol Gunboat/Frigate
Thanks Thiel, but according to SpringSharp3 the vessel works really REALLY well as designed, I will agree that the Radar director is too new for 1936, and well the Bofors were an option in 1936 though, so I went with it over the 1.1" "Chicago Piano", although the 1.1" is probably more period accurate. I was trying to get a Catapult and Plane on board but that idea washed out, not enough room. I will work on a version with the 1.1" guns. Also, should I go with the 4 boats or just 2 and Life rafts?
Author:  bezobrazov [ September 17th, 2011, 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1936 Patrol Gunboat/Frigate
Stick with the 1.1s as on the Charlestons and as for the boats, my advice is to define its mission and then decide the boat complement; i.e. is the ship to be employed as a local flagship, then at least one 36' motor personnel boat in addition to two or three cutters and utility boats would be needed.
Author:  Novice [ September 17th, 2011, 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1936 Patrol Gunboat/Frigate
Very promising start, and good looking to boot (although on the stuby side). As mentioned above, I also think you should opt for the 1.1" 'Chicago piano' to make the vessel more real-life like for the period, and of course loose the radars. If you move X mounting aft a bit and lower-it, and move the aft suerstructure backwards a little, you may have some place for a float-plane and crane, no catapult mind you.
Author:  Thiel [ September 17th, 2011, 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1936 Patrol Gunboat/Frigate
Would you mind posting the SS sheet?
Author:  nighthunter [ September 17th, 2011, 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1936 Patrol Gunboat/Frigate
Sure Thiel! Will be posting an Update soon.

Port Angeles, USA Frigate laid down 1936

Displacement:
1,326 t light; 1,378 t standard; 1,775 t normal; 2,093 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(300.00 ft / 296.00 ft) x 30.00 ft x (14.00 / 15.84 ft)
(91.44 m / 90.22 m) x 9.14 m x (4.27 / 4.83 m)

Armament:
3 - 5.00" / 127 mm 38.0 cal guns - 59.33lbs / 26.91kg shells, 150 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1936 Model
3 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
16 - 1.10" / 27.9 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.67lbs / 0.30kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model
4 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 150 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 189 lbs / 86 kg
Main DC/AS Mortars
2 - 14,400.00 lbs / 6,531.73 kg Depth Charges + 48 reloads - 321.429 t total
in Stern depth charge racks

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.50" / 38 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 0.25" / 6 mm
Forecastle: 0.25" / 6 mm Quarter deck: 0.25" / 6 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 1.00" / 25 mm, Aft 0.75" / 19 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 5,856 shp / 4,369 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 15,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 715 tons

Complement:
136 - 177

Cost:
£0.447 million / $1.787 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 448 tons, 25.3 %
- Guns: 46 tons, 2.6 %
- Weapons: 402 tons, 22.6 %
Armour: 59 tons, 3.3 %
- Armament: 25 tons, 1.4 %
- Armour Deck: 28 tons, 1.6 %
- Conning Towers: 6 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 164 tons, 9.3 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 645 tons, 36.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 449 tons, 25.3 %
Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0.6 %
- Above deck: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
6,183 lbs / 2,804 Kg = 98.9 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.21
Metacentric height 1.2 ft / 0.4 m
Roll period: 11.6 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, low quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and small transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.521
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.87 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.47 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 7.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.48 ft / 0.45 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 20.50 ft / 6.25 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 17.50 ft / 5.33 m, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m, 14.50 ft / 4.42 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 7.50 ft / 2.29 m, 9.50 ft / 2.90 m
- Average freeboard: 15.11 ft / 4.61 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 39.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 131.0 %
Waterplane Area: 6,057 Square feet or 563 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 327 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 49 lbs/sq ft or 237 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.84
- Longitudinal: 4.91
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Author:  Thiel [ September 17th, 2011, 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1936 Patrol Gunboat/Frigate
If I'm reading it right you haven't set the B gun to be superfiring.
Author:  nighthunter [ September 17th, 2011, 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1936 Patrol Gunboat/Frigate
Fixed:

Port Angeles, USA Frigate laid down 1936

Displacement:
1,335 t light; 1,386 t standard; 1,785 t normal; 2,104 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(300.00 ft / 296.00 ft) x 30.00 ft x (14.00 / 15.84 ft)
(91.44 m / 90.22 m) x 9.14 m x (4.27 / 4.83 m)

Armament:
3 - 5.00" / 127 mm 38.0 cal guns - 59.33lbs / 26.91kg shells, 150 per gun
Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1936 Model
3 x Single mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
16 - 1.10" / 27.9 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.67lbs / 0.30kg shells, 150 per gun
Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model
4 x Quad mounts on sides, evenly spread
4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.07lbs / 0.03kg shells, 150 per gun
Machine guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model
4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 189 lbs / 86 kg
Main DC/AS Mortars
2 - 14,400.00 lbs / 6,531.73 kg Depth Charges + 48 reloads - 321.429 t total
in Stern depth charge racks

Armour:
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 1.50" / 38 mm 1.00" / 25 mm -
2nd: 1.00" / 25 mm - -

- Armoured deck - single deck:
For and Aft decks: 0.25" / 6 mm
Forecastle: 0.25" / 6 mm Quarter deck: 0.25" / 6 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 1.00" / 25 mm, Aft 0.75" / 19 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 2 shafts, 5,882 shp / 4,388 Kw = 20.00 kts
Range 15,000nm at 12.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 718 tons

Complement:
136 - 178

Cost:
£0.449 million / $1.795 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 448 tons, 25.1 %
- Guns: 46 tons, 2.6 %
- Weapons: 402 tons, 22.5 %
Armour: 59 tons, 3.3 %
- Armament: 25 tons, 1.4 %
- Armour Deck: 28 tons, 1.6 %
- Conning Towers: 6 tons, 0.3 %
Machinery: 165 tons, 9.2 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 652 tons, 36.6 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 450 tons, 25.2 %
Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0.6 %
- Above deck: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
6,132 lbs / 2,781 Kg = 98.1 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
Metacentric height 1.1 ft / 0.3 m
Roll period: 11.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.64
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has raised forecastle, low quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and small transom stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.503 / 0.524
Length to Beam Ratio: 9.87 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 18.47 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 40
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 7.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 1.48 ft / 0.45 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 20.50 ft / 6.25 m, 18.00 ft / 5.49 m
- Forward deck: 30.00 %, 17.50 ft / 5.33 m, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
- Aft deck: 35.00 %, 15.00 ft / 4.57 m, 14.50 ft / 4.42 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 7.50 ft / 2.29 m, 9.50 ft / 2.90 m
- Average freeboard: 15.11 ft / 4.61 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 39.5 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 131.3 %
Waterplane Area: 6,072 Square feet or 564 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 328 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 49 lbs/sq ft or 239 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.83
- Longitudinal: 4.91
- Overall: 1.00
Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
Excellent accommodation and workspace room
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather
Author:  Thiel [ September 17th, 2011, 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1936 Patrol Gunboat/Frigate
Are you sure about the six ton depth charges?
I've tried to replicate her in SpringSharp3 but I get drastically different numbers, though I suspect that's because I've interpreted the freeboard aft rather differently than you.
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