Proposed 25,000 ton Battleships and Battlecruisers

Like a lot of Shipbucketeers I have had a Japanese "Super" cruiser (CB) floating round my SB folders for some time. So I have dusted it off and updated it and present it here.

[ img ]

Displacement: 25,000 tons, 29,500 tons full load
Dimensions: 686 x 88 x 26 feet
Machinery: 4 shaft Kanpon Turbines, 140,000 shp
Speed: 33 knots
Endurance: 7,000nmi, @ 15 knots
Armour: 8" belt, 4" deck, 8" turrets
Armament:
9 x 12" (3x3)
10 x 5" (5x2)
25mm - shitloads
Torpedoes: 12 x 24" (4x3)
Aircraft: 2
Crew: 1250

Nice work.

I've been playing around with mini-Nelsons in Springsharp but I can't get anything decent (3x3 12in, 14in belt, 5in deck, 27kts) at 25,000 tons, 26,500 tons seems the reasonable limit unless I go for quad turrets. I don't want to go quads and I don't feel the Admiralty were ready for them in 1930. One attempt looks more like a cake of soap than a battleship.

I'm of the firm opinion the whole idea of such ships was a political folly with no practical application at all beyond some kind of Panzerschiff knock-off. Super cruisers perhaps, but not battleships in the sense we know them. I'll keep fiddling but I might not get a drawing done until I'm finished tinkering around.

_________________
Hood's Worklist
English Electric Canberra FD
Interwar RN Capital Ships
Super-Darings
Never-Were British Aircraft

what about lowering the amount of guns? cutting one of the 3 turrets from the nelson would enable you to have a pocket battleship in the truest sense

_________________
Drawings are credited with J.Scholtens
I ask of you to prove me wrong. Not say I am wrong, but prove it, because then I will have learned something new.
Shipbucket Wiki admin

Howdy Hood,

Could you see in Springsharp what it says for 3x3-12", 12" belt, 5" deck, 25 knots, the lesser armour and speed may bring it in on spec. I figured 25 knots was all that was required to allow them to be used with the Queen Elizabeth class ships.

JSB wrote:

I would land the TTs during the refit a 14inch ship doesn't need them IMO and all IJN ships are overweight and you will need more top weight for the massive numbers of 25mm.

Pretty much what I've thougt but I was still undecided about them. You and Bezo nailed me to the proper path.
Nedless to say, torps removed from the 1941 fit.

bezobrazov wrote:

I'd delete the unnecessary 'A'-class cruiser-style midships sponson, since here, your freeboard is adequate. If anything, you could add some more deck-space in the hull, since right now, it looks cramped (even more so than usual IJN-style!) for a BB or BC. And, while using the Takao-class Green house tower complex is nice, I'd add a few more levels, just to make it look more, ehhmm...battleship-like!

Well I could still use it to get some more belowdeck space for crew and storage, although it cannot be glimpsed by simply looking at the drawing, beign the Kawachis 8 full meters beamier than a Takao I have some 480 square meters more of deck space just between the catapult and the bridge. A full-width deckouse can be found on the British Battlecruisers renown and Hood, the IJN progects for the Amagi, Kii and N°13 classes featured something similar, and the US South Dakota had a very wide one too. The kawachi class could be considered more as a well protected Battlecruiser than a true battleship after all, that's why I was inclined to give her more of a cruiser-like appearance than a true BB-one.
The bridge is just 4 feet lower than the one planned for the B64 class Super Cruisers/Battlecruisers, though I could make it a full deck higer in case I'd want

I tend to agree with Hood. The RN designs were a sort of Admiralty insurance in part to prevent the politicians coming up with treaty limits which meant that no useful ships were possible.
At 25000tons and 12", 23 knots was about the limit with BB protection.
To go smaller, the gun calibre was reduced.
To get more speed meant fairly well-protected battlecruiser designs, but 30,000tons was what was thought needed, and even then guns were 3x2 12", 13.5 or 14" and as near 30 knots as possible.
In the end (1934) the first (summer 1935) request leading eventually to KGV was a 35000ton Washington/London 1936 battlecruiser with 3x4 14", 20x4.5in. Studies were based on Tiger hull form, first try with Lion hull form not a success.

What do you think would be best for an American 25k battleship, a more battleship inspired superstructure (SoDak and Colorado,) or a more cruiser inspired one (Northampton and New Orleans?)

Hey Karle94,

That's the beauty of this sort of open challenge - do both.

Do one as a battleship and the other as a battlecruiser type. See how they end up.

Love the mega-Agano, Krakatoa!

_________________
[ img ]

MS State Guard - 08 March 2014 - 28 January 2023

The Official IJN Ships & Planes List

#FJB

Karle94 Consider Alaska, in relation to her contemporaries - say North Carolina and Baltimore or others.
Do you know the Spring Style drawings? http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/albums/s511.htm

Shipbucket

Who is online