Shipbucket

Hi Sumeragi,

Bear in mind it's going to be a turbine set rather than a turbine - you could just have an LP, IP, HP (or IP1, IP2, etc) setup if you require the turbines to absorb the extra power. One point that may present difficulties, however, is the props. When I was doodling with the H45 I picked a propeller size that kept kinetic energy at top speed per volume of water swept by the props roughly consistent with other ships of the era. You'd want to check that with someone knowledgeable before using it yourself, however...

Regards,
Adam

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Thankfully 6 shafts wouldn't be a burden on the vessel, so I guess I'll just hold on that part while I make the rest of the ship.

the first time I come across more then 42,9 MW in my reference table is at the CVA-58 design.
basically all others have a power of no higher then 35 MW, but before you say 'six shafts' I would like to ask why the hell would you build a ship with that kind of power? you are looking at supercarrier sized battleship :S (just looking at the power figure alone)

note that that means an supercarrier sized powerplant too, which at the earlier date will be quite a bit heavier..... think 7000-8000 tons minimum for only the powerplant. if I keep the other figures comparable with real world battleships, that means this ship will be 115000 tons at least.

super battleship, ok, but I think you are overdoing things, as when your ship is twice as heavy as the competitors you run into entirely different problems.

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In other words, might as well reduce maximum speed and use it to put in more secondaries if I continue on with the 90,000 ton project.

Perhaps, we could probably just go with 2x4 and make it a mega-Richelieu. That would help with keeping things simpler also.


Overdoing: What's the fun of AH writing without a few impractical wacky technology?

Revised, "smaller" draft:

Huangti, CNS Superbattleship laid down 1934

Displacement:
76,680 t light; 80,704 t standard; 84,823 t normal; 88,118 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(937.02 ft / 912.07 ft) x 157.48 ft x (34.45 / 35.55 ft)
(285.60 m / 278.00 m) x 48.00 m x (10.50 / 10.83 m)

Armament:
8 - 17.72" / 450 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3,086.47lbs / 1,400.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1934 Model
2 x 4-gun mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
30 - 5.98" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 108.07lbs / 49.02kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1934 Model
10 x 3-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 27,934 lbs / 12,671 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.9" / 327 mm 592.85 ft / 180.70 m 15.06 ft / 4.59 m
Ends: 5.98" / 152 mm 319.19 ft / 97.29 m 15.06 ft / 4.59 m
Upper: 6.69" / 170 mm 592.85 ft / 180.70 m 8.01 ft / 2.44 m
Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
11.4" / 290 mm 592.85 ft / 180.70 m 32.48 ft / 9.90 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 19.7" / 500 mm 7.09" / 180 mm 17.3" / 439 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 5.12" / 130 mm

- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 7.48" / 190 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 13.39" / 340 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 236,211 shp / 176,214 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 8,500nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7,415 tons

Complement:
2,484 - 3,230

Cost:
£29.610 million / $118.440 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 5,167 tons, 6.1 %
Armour: 33,764 tons, 39.8 %
- Belts: 7,562 tons, 8.9 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 8,134 tons, 9.6 %
- Armament: 4,870 tons, 5.7 %
- Armour Deck: 12,642 tons, 14.9 %
- Conning Tower: 557 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 6,795 tons, 8.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 30,452 tons, 35.9 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 8,143 tons, 9.6 %
Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 0.6 %
- On freeboard deck: 500 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
183,155 lbs / 83,078 Kg = 65.9 x 17.7 " / 450 mm shells or 57.3 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.51
Metacentric height 20.0 ft / 6.1 m
Roll period: 14.8 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.20
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.06

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.604
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.79 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.20 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 22.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 10.37 ft / 3.16 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 36.09 ft / 11.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 24.28 ft / 7.40 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 24.28 ft / 7.40 m, 24.28 ft / 7.40 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 24.67 ft / 7.52 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 61.3 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 200.5 %
Waterplane Area: 105,051 Square feet or 9,760 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 120 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 253 lbs/sq ft or 1,237 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.21
- Overall: 1.01
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Now it's closer to a larger Richelieu capable of withstanding regular 16" shells. Only 16" SHS and something close to 18" would be able to harm it. Also, the ship will use turboelectric drives since the massive power needed to run this ship to its maximum speed of 30 knots cannot be handled by regular shaft turbines of the day. I expect this to be a great weakness, since a hit that cuts out the electricity would make this helpless.

A few Questions about your ship,
- do you need 30 152mm guns ? (and they are not very good as AA guns so you will need something smaller as well IMO)
- What is your belt/deck scheme ? (what does 6' give you ? are you AON and do you have a decapping layer or slope to your belt ?)
- 11.4'/290mm Torpedo bulkhead ? or just extension of the belt ?
- Are you a bit fat and wide 5.79 to 1 for 30 KN a good hull shape might save you loads of power ?

JSB

- 152 mm guns: just playing around with the numbers for now, will be changed to some other stuff.
- Armor: Admittedly I copied some French person's Richelieu SpringSharp printout. I'm not sure how that exactly works.
- Torpedo bulkhead: Richelieu's complex and effective system.
- Main issue would be the ship becoming too long. Already 285.60 m / 278.00 m is pushing it, making the ship thinner and longer is really going to cause issues.

Current Version

Huangti, CNS Superbattleship laid down 1934

Displacement:
75,759 t light; 80,704 t standard; 84,823 t normal; 88,118 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(937.02 ft / 912.07 ft) x 157.48 ft x (34.45 / 35.55 ft)
(285.60 m / 278.00 m) x 48.00 m x (10.50 / 10.83 m)

Armament:
12 - 17.72" / 450 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3,086.47lbs / 1,400.00kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1934 Model
3 x 4-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
18 - 5.98" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 108.07lbs / 49.02kg shells, 150 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1934 Model
6 x Triple mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 38,983 lbs / 17,682 kg

Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 12.9" / 327 mm 527.23 ft / 160.70 m 15.06 ft / 4.59 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 89 % of normal length

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
7.09" / 180 mm 527.23 ft / 160.70 m 32.48 ft / 9.90 m

- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 19.7" / 500 mm 7.09" / 180 mm 17.3" / 439 mm
2nd: 3.94" / 100 mm 1.97" / 50 mm 5.12" / 130 mm

- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 7.48" / 190 mm For and Aft decks
Forecastle: 1.97" / 50 mm Quarter deck: 1.97" / 50 mm

- Conning towers: Forward 13.39" / 340 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Electric motors, 4 shafts, 236,211 shp / 176,214 Kw = 30.00 kts
Range 8,500nm at 15.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 7,415 tons

Complement:
2,484 - 3,230

Cost:
£33.981 million / $135.922 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 6,807 tons, 8.0 %
Armour: 28,359 tons, 33.4 %
- Belts: 4,678 tons, 5.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 4,490 tons, 5.3 %
- Armament: 5,992 tons, 7.1 %
- Armour Deck: 12,642 tons, 14.9 %
- Conning Tower: 557 tons, 0.7 %
Machinery: 6,795 tons, 8.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 33,297 tons, 39.3 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 9,064 tons, 10.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 0.6 %
- On freeboard deck: 500 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
151,282 lbs / 68,621 Kg = 54.4 x 17.7 " / 450 mm shells or 35.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.45
Metacentric height 18.8 ft / 5.7 m
Roll period: 15.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.28
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
Hull has low quarterdeck ,
a normal bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.604
Length to Beam Ratio: 5.79 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 30.20 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 22.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 10.37 ft / 3.16 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 20.00 %, 36.09 ft / 11.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 24.28 ft / 7.40 m
- Aft deck: 25.00 %, 24.28 ft / 7.40 m, 24.28 ft / 7.40 m
- Quarter deck: 15.00 %, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m, 16.40 ft / 5.00 m
- Average freeboard: 24.67 ft / 7.52 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 72.7 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 200.5 %
Waterplane Area: 105,051 Square feet or 9,760 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 280 lbs/sq ft or 1,365 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 1.25
- Overall: 1.03
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent


Full Resolution

Using Richelieu as the basis, will slowly Japanize and Italianize as I move equipment around and try to fit things.

I hope you don't mind another question about your belt/deck protection.

You have, (all inches/yards as my tables at Navweps are all US http://www.navweaps.com/index_nathan/Pe ... _Japan.htm)
Belt main = 12.9' (is it sloped ? or protected by another layer ?)
Gun face = 19.7'
CT = 13.39'

Decks = 7.48' (but split Multiple decks)
Gun decks = 7.09' (is that the thickness of the main deck ?)

OK so working v the IJN guns 16' and 18' as opponents (I need to guess at your quality of Armor Plate ? so I have gone for IJN type, I have also use PP figures)

V Japanese 16.1”/45 gun, Type 91 AP (1931-45) 2,249-lb shell with 1,894.3-lb body weight
Deck of 7' protects you up to 32/34 K yards (assuming one layer)
Gun face protects you from 18
Belt protects you from 32/34 (assuming 0deg and no outer layer ?)
CT = from 32
So v the IJN 16.1 you don't have a immunity zone ? (if I'm reading it properly) your belt is week.

V Japanese 18.1”/45 gun, Type 91 AP (1937-45) 3,219-lb shell with 2,624.3-lb body weight
Deck of 7' protects you up to 32/34 K yards (assuming one layer)
Gun face protects you from 26/28
Belt protects you from 42+ (assuming 0deg and no outer layer ?)
CT = from just under 40

This set-up as you have it at the moment shows you have to week a belt (to thin/not angles/no decapping layer) compared to your deck that that would work v both 16'/18' IMO.
The Gun face thickness (19.7') gives you a reasonable IZ for the 16' (14+ ky) and a small one v 18' (4'+ Ky).
The CT doesn't really add anything IMO

IMO you need to decide what you are going to fight and what range and modify/balance stuff (ie I would assume long ranges due to good weather in W pacific ? so you might want a IZ from 20-34 (ish) ?)

Hope this makes sense JSB

For starters, anything above 16.1" (Nagato's gun) is not going to be considered.

Armor is likely Italian Terni Cermented Armor, given that France and Italy are the main investors and supporters of China. Belt slope should be at 15 degrees.

I suppose the IZ should be around 20~30, so we're looking at 380 mm of belt armor after taking into consideration the angle.....


BTW, was British Cemented Armor that better than US Class A Armor? I noticed how relatively thinner armor could be used for protection.