Shipbucket

Totally disregarding KHT's Jōyaku-ha blasphemy ( = reasonable arguments )

BB1987,
First off I wouldn't put to much credence into the ONI sheet its all pre war info (ie near worthless, they are fast BB's ).

The IJN has officially declared that it is building 3 x 25,000t BC with 9 x 12' (6x14'), 8 x 127mm (16x127mm), etc ( ) to replace the 3 Kongo class BC in the treaty.
But as they will not be completing till after the IJN has already signalled its intention to withdrawn from the treaty's they will be free to decide where they are getting the 14inch guns from, IMO I would much rather use the 2 Fuso class (6 each) rather than lose the 4 Knongo class (4 each) note that you can pull ships in for rebuilding so the Kongos might get Fuso guns after rebuilding etc.

JSB

I hope you guys dont mind if I crash the party and draw an American 25000 ton battleship?

there was a proportion from Norwegian shipowner for that they bought an BB or BC for the Norwegian Navy, the belived they need one since Norway was among the five biggest in shipping in that time period. so why not do that one!

Dont know enough to draw something like that. When it comes to battleships, American ones is my fortè.

In that case I would go for fuso all the way, more guns with less ships scrapped and you get rid of an older slow unit in exchange of more faster units, which is more or less what I've chosen for my try.


Anyway, let's try switchin' image host momentarily so I don't need to wait more to post my work too .
This is probably supposed to be an alternative course of action by the IJN when compare to JSB work.


After working on a multitude of obscure design in the late-20s Japan decided to abide to the treaty limits that permitted new builds of no more than 25.000t. The chosen victims were the four ships of the Fuso and Ise class, deemed less worty than the fast Kongos despite the fact they possessed more weapons. By scrapping over 123.000t of warships the IJN hope to build 5 new units for a total of 125.000t. Designed by Kikuo Fujimoto and yuzuru Hiraga the new units soon started to resemble a much larger version of the Takao class cruisers in their appearance.
Battlecruiser-like hull lines were preferred for higher speeds and the armament finalized at twelve 12'' guns (305mm) in four triple turrets, Fujimoto ultimately added four sets of torpedo tubes under pressure from the Naval Staff. As the designed speed was expected to be well over 30knots, something closer to that of a cruisers and well more than even that of the Kongos, the IJN tried to exploit that by making the new units work more like as a sort of Super-Cruisers other than true Battlecruisers. The plan went on and torpedoes stuck despite protests made by Hiraga himself.
Belt armor was 12'' thick, comparable to that of the Fuso and Ise class battleships the new units were intended to replace, the gun turrets, despite housing smaller calibers had similar protection, and at 5'' (127mm) deck armor was thicker too, although ultimately barbette armor was sacrificed in an attempt to save weight when the designers realized that the ships were starting to get overweight.

The first ship, ultimately named Kawachi, was laid down in 1930, as soon as the two Fusos entered the yards for demolition. A second unit, Settsu, was started by the first months of 1931.
As soon as Kawachi was commissioned and Settsu reached her fitting-out phase consistent suspicion arose in foreign observers that the new units displaced more than what was actually declared. Indeed, despite the Naval Staff officialy claimed them as a 25.000t units Kawachi and Settsu displaced 28.865t standard and 32.979t at full load, beign 15% overweight like most of IJN treaty cruisers. Still, by that time Japan had already announced it's intention to terminate the treaty.
In late 1933, after Kawachi was launched, a third unit, Kii, was laid down. Battleship Ise entered the yards for demilitarizazion procedures before her scrapping began, but works were soon halted. Hyuuga never left service and was later modernizer, and Ise followed the same path too. Construction of the last two Kawachi-class units was canceled. Meanwhile, the Naval staff decided that, starting in 1937, when the treaty provisions would have ended, the three Kawachis currently in service or under construction would have been rearmed with 14'' (356mm) guns. spare turrets left from Fuso and Yamashiro and originally intended for coastal defence positions were allocated and fitted to Kii during construction and to Kawachi and Settsu during subsequent refits. By the start of the Pacific War, Kawachi, Settsu and Kii sported eight 14'' (356mm) guns in four twin turrets as their main armament, torpedo tubes, now demed useless as the Naval Staff realized the former mistake, were removed.


Specifications (1934):

Dimension:
-length (OA) 826.24ft (251,8m)
-length (WL) 810.37ft (247m)
-beam 91.86ft (28m)
-draft 26.25ft (8m)

Displacement:
-standard 28.865t (claimed 25.000)
-full load 32.979 (claimed 28.700)

Armament:
-12x 12'' (305/50mm) in 4 triple turrets
-8x 5'' (127/40mm) in 4 twin mounts
-4x 1.57'' (40/60mm) in single mounts
-16x 610mm torpedoes in 4 quadruple mounts (+8 reloads)

Armor:
-belt 12'' (305mm)
-deck 5'' (127mm)
-torpedo bulkhead 2.28'' (58mm)
-turrets 12'' (305m) face, 8'' (203mm) roof, sides
-barbettes 5'' (127mm)

Speed: 31knots
Range: 8.500nm at 15knots
Complement: up to 1.524 as flagship



Post-refit(1941):

Armament:
-8x 14'' (356/450mm) in 4 twin turrets
-8x 5'' (127/40mm) in 4 twin mounts
-20x 0.98'' (25/60mm) in 4 twin and 4 triple mounts


Ships:
-Kawachi 1930-1933-1934
-Settsu 1931-1934-1936
-Kii 1933-1937-1938
-Owari //
-unnamed //

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I LIKE .

I would land the TTs during the refit a 14inch ship doesn't need them IMO and all IJN ships are overweight and you will need more top weight for the massive numbers of 25mm.

I will add a small point that you don't have to demolish ships replaced till the replacement comes into service so a little overlap is ok.

JSB

I like the Kawachi-class, but I agree with JSB about the TT:s. Also, I'd delete the unnecessary 'A'-class cruiser-style midships sponson, since here, your freeboard is adequate. If anything, you could add some more deck-space in the hull, since right now, it looks cramped (even more so than usual IJN-style!) for a BB or BC. And, while using the Takao-class Green house tower complex is nice, I'd add a few more levels, just to make it look more, ehhmm...battleship-like!

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Excellent Japanese additions from JSB and BB1987. Both look so Japanese yet are also vastly different.

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You guys are making my day, what great drawings have been added.

Though I would say that probably none of our so called "25,000" ton ships actually have made their weight. But hey, what the hell, 90% of the 35,000 ton BB's never made their weight either.


Karle94, Happy to have as many different countries represented as possible, go for it.