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Norway coastal defence ship http://67.205.157.234/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2085 |
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Author: | heuhen [ October 26th, 2011, 7:16 pm ] | |
Post subject: | Re: Norway coastal defence ship | |
Well, now that we've got the SS report in order it's time to look at the design itself.
yes I agree with you on that.
First of with an overall strength of only 0,54 I'll say the ship is badly overloaded. The Coastal Defence ships were historically ver strong if somewhat uncomfortable ships. For what is essentially a pre-war ship the amount of light AA is far too high. I'd remove at least half of them, if not more. I'd also settle on one of the two types. In order to bring down the load you may also have to sacrifice half the 76mm guns or replace them with something lighter like the 40mm Bofors. It's by no means an optimal solution but then neither were this type of ships. |
Author: | heuhen [ October 26th, 2011, 7:57 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Norway coastal defence ship |
Hmmm! Let us take a Macgyver! |
Author: | SrGopher [ October 26th, 2011, 8:48 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Norway coastal defence ship |
Now she looks even more amazing! |
Author: | Thiel [ October 27th, 2011, 6:42 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Norway coastal defence ship |
First off, dump the 40mm Boffin and use a "proper" mount. The Boffin was a happy coincident, but it was very cramped and didn't allow for much ready ammunition. And please remove the 12,7mm from the turret top.Hitting anything will be the next best thing to impossible and getting ammunition to it even harder. An option you can consider is to reduce the 6in to twin 4-5in DP guns, replace the beam mounts with one single on each side amidship and four 12,7 or 20mm guns on the superstructure (Singles or twins) That'll give you a very respectable AA battery for her displacement with at least three barrels being able to fire at any bearing. If you think you need more and if the design will allow it you can add 8mm MGs. Unlike their heavier cousins they only need one crewmember since he can reload it himself and the ammunition is small and light enough that it can be stored on site so to speak. I believe the Norwegian Army used the Madsen MG at the time. Of course by 1940 the 8mm was becoming rather anaemic for the purpose, but like all things military they're a trade-off. |
Author: | eltf177 [ October 27th, 2011, 1:20 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Norway coastal defence ship |
It doesn't appear that anybody's noticed that the TBD is _way_ too thick and there is _no_ deck armor. Did a quick SS2 fixing these problems... ************************** Bergen/Christiania, Norwegian Coastal Defense Ship laid down 1940 Displacement: 6,213 t light; 6,512 t standard; 6,800 t normal; 7,030 t full load Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught 319.35 ft / 311.68 ft x 55.77 ft x 18.04 ft (normal load) 97.34 m / 95.00 m x 17.00 m x 5.50 m Armament: 4 - 9.45" / 240 mm guns (2x2 guns), 421.95lbs / 191.40kg shells, 1940 Model Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes) on centreline ends, evenly spread 4 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (2x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1940 Model Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes) on centreline ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts 4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 13.50lbs / 6.12kg shells, 1940 Model Dual purpose guns in deck mounts on side, all amidships 10 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm guns (5x2 guns), 0.24lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1940 Model Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts 6 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1940 Model Machine guns in deck mounts on side, evenly spread Weight of broadside 2,177 lbs / 987 kg Shells per gun, main battery: 130 Armour: - Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg) Main: 10.0" / 254 mm 202.59 ft / 61.75 m 8.96 ft / 2.73 m Ends: 7.00" / 178 mm 109.07 ft / 33.24 m 8.96 ft / 2.73 m Upper: 7.00" / 178 mm 202.59 ft / 61.75 m 8.00 ft / 2.44 m Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length - Torpedo Bulkhead: 2.50" / 64 mm 202.59 ft / 61.75 m 17.96 ft / 5.47 m - Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max) Main: 7.00" / 178 mm 7.00" / 178 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 6.00" / 152 mm 3rd: 1.00" / 25 mm 1.00" / 25 mm - - Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 8.00" / 203 mm Machinery: Oil fired boilers, steam turbines, Direct drive, 2 shafts, 7,058 shp / 5,265 Kw = 16.40 kts Range 3,000nm at 14.00 kts Bunker at max displacement = 518 tons Complement: 373 - 486 Cost: £2.834 million / $11.338 million Distribution of weights at normal displacement: Armament: 272 tons, 4.0 % Armour: 3,650 tons, 53.7 % - Belts: 1,580 tons, 23.2 % - Torpedo bulkhead: 337 tons, 4.9 % - Armament: 587 tons, 8.6 % - Armour Deck: 1,086 tons, 16.0 % - Conning Tower: 62 tons, 0.9 % Machinery: 189 tons, 2.8 % Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,101 tons, 30.9 % Fuel, ammunition & stores: 588 tons, 8.6 % Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 % Overall survivability and seakeeping ability: Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship): 15,424 lbs / 6,996 Kg = 36.6 x 9.5 " / 240 mm shells or 4.7 torpedoes Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.03 Metacentric height 2.2 ft / 0.7 m Roll period: 15.8 seconds Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 65 % - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.66 Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.31 Hull form characteristics: Hull has a flush deck Block coefficient: 0.759 Length to Beam Ratio: 5.59 : 1 'Natural speed' for length: 17.65 kts Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 % Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50 Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length): - Stem: 16.40 ft / 5.00 m - Forecastle (20 %): 14.76 ft / 4.50 m - Mid (50 %): 13.12 ft / 4.00 m - Quarterdeck (15 %): 13.12 ft / 4.00 m - Stern: 14.76 ft / 4.50 m - Average freeboard: 13.95 ft / 4.25 m Ship tends to be wet forward Ship space, strength and comments: Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 63.6 % - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 101.1 % Waterplane Area: 14,672 Square feet or 1,363 Square metres Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 % Structure weight / hull surface area: 102 lbs/sq ft or 498 Kg/sq metre Hull strength (Relative): - Cross-sectional: 0.92 - Longitudinal: 2.13 - Overall: 1.00 Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily Made the following corrections: - Changed gun layout to match drawing - Reduced TBD from 10-inches down to a more reasonable 2.5-inches - The 3-inch DP mounts are now enclosed in armor - Added a 4-inch deck (deck armor missing on all designs) |
Author: | Thiel [ October 27th, 2011, 1:27 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Norway coastal defence ship |
So that's were all the strength went. |
Author: | Carthaginian [ October 27th, 2011, 4:28 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Norway coastal defence ship |
LOL... yeah, a heavy 4" deck will sap the strength out of a design. |
Author: | bezobrazov [ October 27th, 2011, 5:04 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Norway coastal defence ship |
Where's the TBD (Torpedo Boat Destroyer)??? |
Author: | heuhen [ October 27th, 2011, 5:40 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Norway coastal defence ship |
Author: | eltf177 [ October 27th, 2011, 6:40 pm ] | |
Post subject: | Re: Norway coastal defence ship | |
Where's the TBD (Torpedo Boat Destroyer)???
TBD stands for Torpedo Bulkhead.Yes, a 4-inch deck is a bit on the thick side. But these ships will always be within range of land-based aircraft, I feel a thick deck is an absolute necessity. |
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