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Alternate Royal Navy #2
http://67.205.157.234/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6879		 Page 1 of 20
Author:  Hood [ April 30th, 2016, 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Alternate Royal Navy #2
I've decided to reboot the alternate Royal Navy. These are my musings and this will not be a complete AU but rather a series of interlocking ship designs exploring new avenues and ideas.

All the drawings are visible here but the detailed entries are in the pages that follow.

Wiltshire Class Heavy Cruiser
Info:viewtopic.php?f=35&t=10664&p=207015#p207015

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HMS Wiltshire, September 1933


Surrey Class Heavy Cruiser
Info: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6391&hilit=final+quartet#p150738

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HMS Surrey, 1932

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HMS Essex, 1934


Iron Duke Class
Info:viewtopic.php?f=15&t=8477&hilit=iron+du ... 80#p180985

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HMS Benbow, as completed 1938

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HMS Iron Duke, September 1942

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HMS Centurion, July 1944

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HMS Monarch, September 1945


Insuperable Class Aircraft Carrier
Info: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9902&p=195189#p195189

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HMS Insuperable, May 1941

Invincible Class Escort Cruiser
Info: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6879&start=60#p179464

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HMS Invincible, 1979

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HMS Illustrious, 1989


Admiral Class Cruiser
Info: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9451&start=30#p187233

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HMS Collingwood, 1957


Iron Duke Class Nuclear Cruiser
Info:viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6879&p=203074#p203074

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HMS Iron Duke 1978

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HMS Iron Duke 1991


Cutlass Class Destroyer
Info: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6879&start=90#p182855

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HMS Cutlass, 1958

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HMS Claymore, 1966

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HMS Claymore, 1979

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HMS Carronade, 1960

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HMS Carronade, 1977


County Class NIGS Conversion
Info: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6879&start=110#p193405

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HMS Hampshire, 1964


Type 82 Air-Defence Destroyer
Info: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6879#p155879

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HMS Bristol, 1971

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HMS Glasgow, 1985

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HMS Cardiff, 1993


Type 42 Sheffield Class Guided-Missile Destroyers
Info: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6879&p=205863#p205863

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HMS Sheffield, Type 42 Destroyer, 1971


Type 43 Surrey Class Guided-Missile Destroyers
Info: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6879&start=20#p156235

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HMS Surrey as completed 1986


Type 45 Daring Class Destroyer
Info:viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9826&p=193910#p193910

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HMS Diana, 2020


Castle Class Sloop
Info: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9744&p=192492#p192492

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HMS Farnham Castle, 1935


Type 19 Anti-Submarine Frigate
Info: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6879#p155879

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Type 19 as originally commissioned

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Type 19 as upgraded in the late 1970s-early 1980s


Type 80 Air Defence Frigate
Info: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6879&start=40#p178301 and viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6879&start=70#p179627

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HMS Archer, Type 80, 1963

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HMS Arrow, Type 80, 1965

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HMS Slingshot, 1977

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HMS Arrow, 1979


Type 21 Cheiftan Class General Purpose Frigate
Info: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6879&start=40#p178900 and viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6879&start=70#p179627

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HMS Crescent, 1982

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HMS Comet, 1988

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HMS Crescent, 1993


Type 22 Broadsword Guided-Missile Frigate
Info: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6879&p=190269#p190269

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HMS Broadsword 1982

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HMS Boxer 1998


Type 44 Cornwall Air Defence Frigate
Info: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6879&p=190269#p190269
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HMS Cumberland, 1991


Type 24 Eclipse Class Frigate
Info: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6879&start=50#p179312

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HMS Eclipse, 1991

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HMS Eclipse, 2019


Advanced Technology Frigate (ATV)
Info: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6879&p=204258#p204258

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HMS Erebus, July 1995

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HMS Erebus, April 2011


Type 25 FSC
Info:viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6879&start=120#p194011
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Type 26 Fearless Class
Info: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6879&p=193972#p193972

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HMS Foxhound, 2020


Type 83 Class
Info:viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6879&p=194059#p194059

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HMS Plymouth, 2007

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HMS Weymouth, 2019


Flower Class Offshore Patrol Vessel
Info: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6879&start=80#p180611

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HMS Bluebell, Flower Class, 1985


Castle Class Offshore Patrol Vessel
Info: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6879&start=100#p189174

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HMS Leeds Castle, Castle Class, 1983


Type 31 Egret Class Sloop
Info: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=10549&p=205549#p205549

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Type 31 Egret Class, HMS Egret 2026


Chester Class MCMV
Info: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6879&p=204332#p204332

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HMS Colchester, June 1985


Beach Class LST
Info: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6879&p=204138#p204138

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HMS Chesil Beach, 1966


Albion Class LHD
Info: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6879&p=200625#p200625

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HMS Albion, 2003

Bay Class LPD
Info: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6879&p=200625#p200625

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HMS Cardigan Bay, 1998

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HMS Lyme Bay, 2020

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HMS Morecambe Bay, 2021


Point Class
Info:viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6879&p=201694#p201694

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RFA Hurst Point, 1998

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HMS Anvil Point, 2010
Author:  Hood [ April 30th, 2016, 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternate Royal Navy #2
Type 82 Air-Defence Destroyer
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HMS Bristol June 1971

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HMS Glasgow, June 1985

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HMS Cardiff, July 1993

Eight ships commissioned:
HMS Bristol D23 June 1971
HMS Sheffield D24 July 1972
HMS Birmingham D25 March 1973
HMS Glasgow D26 July 1974
HMS Cardiff D27 June 1974
HMS Coventry D28 November 1974
HMS Newcastle D29 April 1976
HMS Liverpool D30 October 1975

Dimensions: 435ft 6in (oa) length; 55ft beam; 21ft draught (over sonar dome), 16ft (hull). Bigger than Type 42 Batch I but smaller than County, Type 82 and 42 Batch III.
Machinery: Two 24,000shp Olympus TM1 giving 48,000shp plus two 3,500shp Proteus 10M for cruising.
Speed: 30kts (deep and clean)
Displacement: 4,500-4,750 tons standard, my ball-park estimate
Armament:
1x2 3in L/70 Mk.8, in this scenario the RN keeps the 3in L/70 and fits it instead of the 4.5in Mk.6 in frigates. I have designed a 'Mk.2' mounting with an unmanned GRP mounting which should be lighter and would incorporate a few changes to boost reliability, not so good for the anti-ship role, but in her role as an air-defence ship they can knock-down incoming aircraft as an inner layer of defence. Control by Type 909 over forward arcs or the two MRS-3 GWS-22 directors aft which should have ok arcs forward and aft for a three-channel control.
2x1 20mm Orkileon, replaced by two 20mm GAM-BOI in the 1980s
1x2 Sea Dart SAM (38 missiles), fire-control by two Type 909
2x4 Sea Cat 2 SAM (36 missiles), fire-control by two MRS-3. The supersonic Sea Cat development goes ahead in this scenario as a cheap supersonic SAM which uses all the existing elements (launchers, fire-control) of the GWS-22 Sea Cat. Offers a good close-range SAM system to deal with leakers and is backed up by the 3in gun. Replaced by 2x 20mm Phalanx Block 1 CIWS during 1980s refits and then by Seastreak CIWS mounts during the early 1990s.
2x Westland Sea King or Wessex helicopters, replaced during the mid-1980s by Westland WG.34 Merlin helicopters. My Type 82 is not a general purpose design as such, she is not optimised for anti-submarine warfare to save money for Ikara equipped helicopters. Soviet SSNs and SSGs and SSGNs are the main threat, stand-off missiles can be dealt with by the SAMs and guns. Any ASW weapon needs range and speed, so the Sea King is the main ASW weapon. Superior to MATCH Wasp and Ikara won't fit on this hull. No Limbo, but in the 1980s A/S torpedo tubes added to give limited close-in protection.
Radars: Electronics as the real Type 82, except one change. An off-shoot of the NIGS programme the New Surveillance Radar, what this was in real-life is still an unknown. In my scenario its the culmination of the ASWE is a single-rotating array 3-D radar equivalent to the SPS-52. Small and lighter than Type 988 and probably more achievable too. During the 1980s the Type 992Q is replaced by a Type 1030 L-band STIR with UAA-1 ESM. Millpost jammers are also added in the 1980s, later the Type 675 anti-targeting jammers being removed. Type 184M is the only sonar fitted.



Next up is an anti-submarine frigate, the Type 19. Although a 'frigate' for economic reasons this in reality is a destroyer in size. I would expect at least 8-12 to be built around the same time as the Type 82 destroyers as a mixed force. All were designed for upgrading later on.

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Type 19 as originally commissioned

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Type 19 as upgraded in the late 1970s-early 1980s

8 ships commissioned:
HMS Antelope F85 February 1973
HMS Ardent F86 September 1972
HMS Apollo F87 July 1973
HMS Ariadne F88 March 1974
HMS Ambuscade June 1975
HMS Active April 1976
HMS Arrow November 1976
HMS Avenger May 1977

Dimensions: 408ft (oa) length; 47ft beam; 18ft 6in draught (over sonar domes), 14ft (hull).
Machinery: Two 27,500shp Olympus TM3B plus two 4,100shp Tyne RM1A for cruising.
Speed: 31kts (deep and clean)
Displacement: 3,900 tons standard
Armament:
1x2 3in L/70 Mk.8, fire-control by Ikara tracking radar over forward arcs or the MRS-3 GWS-22 director aft
2x1 20mm Orkileon
1x Ikara launcher (20 missiles), fire-control by Ikara tracking radar, can fire standard Ikara A/S missiles or Woomba ASM version of the GAF Turana drone with a radar seeker and 500lb warhead
1x4 Sea Cat 2 SAM (24 missiles), fire-control by one MRS-3 GWS-22 director, the supersonic Sea Cat 2 is a stand-in weapon as the ship is designed to hold 2x 8-cell VLS GWS-25 Confessor SAMs, these are retrofitted in the 1970s/80s upgrade along with double-end fire-control with two Type 910 directors.
2x 3 12.75in lightweight A/S torpedo tubes, added in 1970s/80s upgrade to give close-in A/S protection
2x Westland Wasp HAS.Mk.1 (MATCH), later two Westland Lynx HAS.Mk.1
Radars:
One Type 1006 surface search, one Type 992Q TIR, one Type 965M (for air picket duty), two Type 968 'Cooky' jammers, slightly updated Leander sonar fit. The 1970/80s upgrade includes Type 2008 and Type 2016 sonars, 965M is replaced by the 3-D NSR (New Surveillance Radar) to give much superior air defence capability and newer Type 980 'Heather' jammers fitted too.
Author:  erik_t [ April 30th, 2016, 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternate Royal Navy #2
WOOHOO

This has always been one of my favorite ongoing AUs, and I'm excited to see it progress with modern drawing standards.

I think your radar fit on the Type 82 is a little bit schizophrenic. One could argue that the search plus target indicator radar mindset of the RN is obsolete once one moves to an S-band 3D air search radar. I'm not sure what T992 really offers above and beyond the SPS-52 equivalent. In any case, if one imprints that mindset on USN service, the S-band FRESCAN was much closer to the target indicator role than the search role! SPS-52 was not considered sufficient for search for a ship with anything more capable than Standard-MR. I think T965 would be more appropriate, but it may be too heavy to realistically fit. If that is the case, I'd think about removing the second air search set entirely, and using that tonnage/money on something else. The USN evaluated some extra large antennas during SPS-52 development, and certainly I'd rather have a little bit more power aperture than a second low-capability S-band search set.
Author:  heuhen [ April 30th, 2016, 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternate Royal Navy #2
on the Type 19... I like dark red lines!
Author:  Gollevainen [ April 30th, 2016, 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternate Royal Navy #2
Looks good, cant wait to see the carriers they are to be protecting...
Author:  Rainmaker [ April 30th, 2016, 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternate Royal Navy #2
Fantastic! Your Type 82 strikes me as a British analogue to the Canadian Iroquois class, post-air defence conversion. Very interesting.
Author:  Krakatoa [ April 30th, 2016, 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternate Royal Navy #2
Howdy Hood,

Wonderful drawings, as Heuhen says, HMS Ardent with a red stripe is a cut above the rest.

Seacat entered service 1962. You gave me details of Supercat which since you are also into an AU environment you could use for your later 1970's+ ships to replace Seacat?


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Author:  acelanceloet [ April 30th, 2016, 8:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternate Royal Navy #2
awesome to see this started up again! just a small heads-up: there is a red line in the second drawing ;)
Author:  erik_t [ April 30th, 2016, 8:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternate Royal Navy #2
I do think it might be time to put that ancient Corvus part drawing out to pasture.
Author:  acelanceloet [ April 30th, 2016, 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternate Royal Navy #2
not perfect but I have this one from the latest iteration of the tromp class?
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