Thanks apdsmith. I hope it pans out
Tempest.
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| My idea, 1919: The German Empire after the First World War http://67.205.157.234/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6206 |
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| Author: | Tempest [ August 7th, 2015, 1:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | My idea, 1919: The German Empire after the First World War |
I've been working on an imperial Germany 1919 AU, the premise is that The Kaiser never did push for unrestricted submarine warfare and throughout the war the U-boats operated under the Prize Law rules. As a consequence the passengers and crew of the Lusitania were evacuated to the life boats before the ocean liner RMS Lusitania was torpedoed and sunk by U-20 in 1915 and as a result the United States of America wasn't drawn into The First World War. This meant the Entente didn't receive an influx of fresh U.S troops and the threat of an Entente offensive never materialised, meaning the Germans weren't forced to launch their unsuccessful 1918 summer offensive designed to force a conclusion to the war before the American forces could arrive in significant numbers, loosing over 640,000 irreplaceable men in the process. In the spring of 1919 the Entente and the Central Powers, exhausted and weary of war agreed to an armistice and began negotiations for the ending of the war. With the ending of the war and the signing of the Treaty of Versailles it was agreed all borders were returned to what they were in 1914, including Germany's overseas territories. With the Signing of the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk in 1917 the boundaries of the German Empire's eastern frontier had already been finalised, leaving the German Empire with a large swathe of land to colonise and vast natural resources to exploit. With the cessation of hostilities, it was The Kaierliche Marines' priority to assimilate its war experiences and resume capitol ship construction and carry its fleet onward into the next decade. Any thoughts guys? Tempest. |
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| Author: | apdsmith [ August 7th, 2015, 4:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My idea, 1919: The German Empire after the First World W |
Hi Tempest, Well, first thoughts from me are: Does the 1918 flu pandemic still happen? Are you still anticipating the Depression and the subsequent Naval treaties? Regards, Adam |
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| Author: | Tempest [ August 7th, 2015, 4:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My idea, 1919: The German Empire after the First World W |
I can only guess that the pandemic would not be as widespread due to the U.S not entering the First World War. The depression will still happen in a similar way as it did. I'm toying with the idea of no naval treaties, as Germany and Japan refuse to sign up to them, resulting in an unadulterated naval arms race. However that would mean that the surplus hulls won't be converted into aircraft carriers as the were in RL. So I have to think about that. Tempest. |
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| Author: | apdsmith [ August 7th, 2015, 5:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My idea, 1919: The German Empire after the First World W |
Hi Tempest, One other consideration might be that part of the reason for the treaties was the depression itself ... it made it a lot easier for all parties to come to the table and collectively agree not to cripple themselves further building massive battleships. This sounds like an interesting AU, though, I'm looking forward to see how it progresses! Regards, Adam |
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| Author: | Tempest [ August 7th, 2015, 5:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My idea, 1919: The German Empire after the First World W |
Thanks apdsmith. I hope it pans out Tempest. |
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| Author: | BB1987 [ August 7th, 2015, 8:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My idea, 1919: The German Empire after the First World W |
One very complex possibility is to get treaties later on, with no Washington Naval Conference (and subsequent Treaty) taking place in 1921/22, because somewhat there was lack of interest (or better lack of hindsight) from some of the major powers. So initially all naval building programs carry on, although some nations might expirience issues with fundings, leading to delays (UK, Germany?) or even cancellations (France, Italy) of some of the planned units. Then in late 1923 the Kanto Earthquake also partially cripples the IJN 8-8 fleet plan (on an interesting note, with no suspension and conversion into carriers because of the WNT it would not be Amagi the ship to be destroyed on the yards, but Kii, which was planned to be built after the earlier unit had been launched), and the Japanese infrastructures around Tokyo. In light of this, all major powers might start to reconsider their Capital Ships building plans, eventually leading to a jointly agreeded moratorium on Battleship construction for a few years. The 1929 Wall Street Crash would do the rest and lead to a full-scale disarmament treaty in 1930/31, basically a WNT and LNT all-in-one. Details of this will be quite hard to be worked on thiugh, as the absence of a 1922 WNT would lead to a completely differend develpement of Heavy Cruisers and Aircraft carriers. Some hughe background work would be needed to something close tho the OTL Carrier and Cruiser developement as it was in the late 30's. |
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| Author: | Tobius [ August 7th, 2015, 10:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My idea, 1919: The German Empire after the First World W |
I can only say what the actual numbers show. Germany was done for in 1919, whether the Americans entered the war or not. Her, Germany's, manpower was exhausted, her economy' especially the agricultural sector was in a state of total collapse. No more cohorts to levee existed. The people were starving because the farms had no production. So all the Americans did, was end it a year earlier, and a year gentler. It could and would have been a lot worse in any realistic AU imagining. The British and the French had just enough left in them to finish the job. You better start with a negotiated peace no later than 1916 before the real damage is done. |
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| Author: | tsd715 [ August 7th, 2015, 11:38 pm ] | |
| Post subject: | Re: My idea, 1919: The German Empire after the First World W | |
I can only say what the actual numbers show. Germany was done for in 1919, whether the Americans entered the war or not. Her, Germany's, manpower was exhausted, her economy' especially the agricultural sector was in a state of total collapse. No more cohorts to levee existed. The people were starving because the farms had no production. So all the Americans did, was end it a year earlier, and a year gentler. It could and would have been a lot worse in any realistic AU imagining. The British and the French had just enough left in them to finish the job. You better start with a negotiated peace no later than 1916 before the real damage is done.
I agree with the facts you stated, mostly, but, still, I disagree. Yes the people were starving, there was practically no agriculture, etc. but Russia had left the war and millions more troops were freed up for the Western Front. Until they ran into the Americans at Château Thierry, they were barreling through the Brotish and French and would have taken Paris if it weren't for those meddling Americans!
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| Author: | seeker36340 [ August 8th, 2015, 1:15 am ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: My idea, 1919: The German Empire after the First World W | ||
I can only say what the actual numbers show. Germany was done for in 1919, whether the Americans entered the war or not. Her, Germany's, manpower was exhausted, her economy' especially the agricultural sector was in a state of total collapse. No more cohorts to levee existed. The people were starving because the farms had no production. So all the Americans did, was end it a year earlier, and a year gentler. It could and would have been a lot worse in any realistic AU imagining. The British and the French had just enough left in them to finish the job. You better start with a negotiated peace no later than 1916 before the real damage is done.
I agree with the facts you stated, mostly, but, still, I disagree. Yes the people were starving, there was practically no agriculture, etc. but Russia had left the war and millions more troops were freed up for the Western Front. Until they ran into the Americans at Château Thierry, they were barreling through the Brotish and French and would have taken Paris if it weren't for those meddling Americans!Think a bit further - a proud, intact Heer returns to smash revolts like the Spartakists and the Nazis throughout Germany (imagine Hitler and his cronies being hung in 1923 after his attempt is smashed by ironically the crack List regiment). A Heer that would be the bulwark against Communism (provided the Soviet Union would have even developed as a major strategic threat or even survived without the Ukraine and Baku. A Germany where a genius like Rathenau isn't gunned down by some right-wing kook, but survives to lead the rebuilding of the post-war economy. |
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| Author: | Tobius [ August 8th, 2015, 1:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: My idea, 1919: The German Empire after the First World W |
Tanks, much better airplanes, superior artillery, a bigger manufacturing base, access to credit, and overseas resources, more untapped manpower, stronger will. That's the Allies. The Germans were finished. March 1919 by the numbers. |
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