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1898 “Marine Royale Belge/Koninklijke Belgische Marine”
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Author:  waritem [ September 16th, 2014, 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  1898 “Marine Royale Belge/Koninklijke Belgische Marine”
The « Belgian AU » from Locust reminded me some of those old rusting ship I’ve never posted (drawn in 2013…..).

The idea came from a drawing found on the net :http://www.alternatehistory.com/Discuss ... 8&page=175
[ img ]

Did you know (I didn't) for exemple that in 1843, King Leopold I signed a contract with Ladd & Co. to colonize the Kingdom of Hawaii, but the deal fell apart when Ladd & Co. ran into financial difficulties?
Or that On 4 May 1843, the Guatemalan parliament issued a decree giving the district of Santo Tomás "in perpetuity" to the Compagnie belge de colonisation, a private Belgian company under the protection of King Leopold I of Belgium ? (Belgian colonizing efforts in Guatemala ceased in 1854, due to lack of financial means and high fatalities suffered due to yellow fever and malaria).
I’ve even found source about a project of buying Phillipines from Spain.

So, in this AU, Belgium colonial empire included Hawaii and Santo Tomás and Congo free state. It’s always seemed strange to me that a country with colony ,even if it consist only of congo, don’t have a real Navy (which was the case of Belgium).
here was the occasion of correct it!

But I don’t wanted this sea power to last. So I decided that Belgium join force with the Spanish in the 1898 war, and thus was defeated with them.

It sounded to me realistic, in this context, that there was tension between USA and Belgium:
- Seeing a new European colonial power settle in central America (Santo Tomás) was totally against the Monroe Doctrine,
- Hawaii was coveted by Americans,
- The atrocities in the Congo Free State were criticized by a wide part of American public .

First I have to Dust off my old PNG.
Then I will provide you with the 1898 “Marine Royale Belge/Koninklijke Belgische Marine” (Belgium navy use French and Dutch language).
Author:  waritem [ September 16th, 2014, 11:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 1898 “Marine Royale Belge/Koninklijke Belgische Marine”
The first ship is, of course, the battleship “Baudoin de Belgique/Boudewijn van België” (always in French and Dutch).
The ship was laid down in 1886. Design was influenced by French ships, especially battleship “Marceau”, but the side single turrets were replaced by twin casemates.
Construction was quite slow as the Belgium shipyards were unexperimented on building war ships and even more battleships. It was even delayed by the decision of replacing the original French 274 mm/45 Model 1887/1893 gun by German 28 cm/40 MRK L/40.
Lead ship of it’s class it was intended to be called “Duc de Brabant/Hertog van Brabant” in reference to the deceased son of the ruling king.
But the sudden death of the very popular prince Baudoin, nephew of the king and new heir of the crown, and the public pressure that followed led to a change of name.
It was commissioned as admiral ship of the navy in 1892. It was replaced in this role when the second ship of the class (then called with the original name) was commissioned in 1884. It became admiral ship of the “Force Navale Publique” , name of the squadron stationed in the African colony, officially navy of the Congo Free State.
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Author:  Thiel [ September 16th, 2014, 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1898 “Marine Royale Belge/Koninklijke Belgische Marine”
If you intend to station her in tropical waters I'd paint her another colour. Air-conditioning wasn't a thing yet so the best they could do was paint the ship in colours that didn't absorb as much heat.
Author:  Hood [ September 16th, 2014, 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1898 “Marine Royale Belge/Koninklijke Belgische Marine”
A very nice drawing and an interesting AU.
I agree with Thiel on the colours too, and we'd see more of the details too.
Author:  waritem [ September 16th, 2014, 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1898 “Marine Royale Belge/Koninklijke Belgische Marine”
Thiel wrote:
If you intend to station her in tropical waters I'd paint her another colour. Air-conditioning wasn't a thing yet so the best they could do was paint the ship in colours that didn't absorb as much heat.
i agree with that!
To be perfectly honest i was hesitating on doing it or not.
And now i realised that i've never asked myself the reason of the tropical color scheme on XIX° century Ships.................... :roll:

I will correct it on both ships.

And when i say both, i mean:

Although the construction of those two ships provided a valuable experience to belgian shipyards , they were considered not very effective and technically obsolete .
Plus battleships were huge ship to handle for a nascent navy, and armored cruiser seemed to better fulfill the task of the belgian navy.
To gain time in design process, plans of the new and promissing Giuseppe Gribaldi armoured cruisers were bought from Ansaldo in 1894.
Those plans were quite altered, mainly by adding French fashion armored battle mast .This time construction was quite fast (thank to the Belgium powerfull industry), and the to ships were both commissioned by 1897.
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Author:  TimothyC [ September 16th, 2014, 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1898 “Marine Royale Belge/Koninklijke Belgische Marine”
waritem wrote:
So, in this AU, Belgium colonial empire included Hawaii
<Snip>
- Hawaii was coveted by Americans,
Ok, as a minor student of the history of the Kingdom of Hawaii (1795 -1892) with special attention paid to the Paulet Affair (1843) I can say with certainty that this will NOT work (yeah, you've touched a bit of a nerve here). Any attempt to annex Hawai'i results in not just the US coming down on your head with the Monroe Doctrine (heck, both of your territories suffer from this), but also the might of the Royal Navy. As well, even if you take the royal seat in Honolulu, you're now faced with an insurgency - one backed by the Americans and the British. While it is hard to envision true Hawaiian independence post 1900 (it takes a lot of tweaking the timeline to get it to happen), Belgium of all places isn't going to pull it off - ever.

I think you've simply forgotten that the Kingdom of Hawaii, unlike the Congo, had by 1810 become a true (Westphalian) state. Trying to turn it into a colony is going to fail, and fail hard.

I end this post with the saying of King Kamehameha III on the occasion of the end of the Paulet Affair:

Ua Mau ke Ea o ka ʻĀina i ka Pono

"The Life of the Land is perpetuated in Righteousness"
Author:  waritem [ September 16th, 2014, 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1898 “Marine Royale Belge/Koninklijke Belgische Marine”
TimothyC wrote:
waritem wrote:
So, in this AU, Belgium colonial empire included Hawaii
<Snip>
- Hawaii was coveted by Americans,
Ok, as a minor student of the history of the Kingdom of Hawaii (1795 -1892) with special attention paid to the Paulet Affair (1843) I can say with certainty that this will NOT work (yeah, you've touched a bit of a nerve here). Any attempt to annex Hawai'i results in not just the US coming down on your head with the Monroe Doctrine (heck, both of your territories suffer from this), but also the might of the Royal Navy. As well, even if you take the royal seat in Honolulu, you're now faced with an insurgency - one backed by the Americans and the British. While it is hard to envision true Hawaiian independence post 1900 (it takes a lot of tweaking the timeline to get it to happen), Belgium of all places isn't going to pull it off - ever.

I think you've simply forgotten that the Kingdom of Hawaii, unlike the Congo, had by 1810 become a true (Westphalian) state. Trying to turn it into a colony is going to fail, and fail hard.

I end this post with the saying of King Kamehameha III on the occasion of the end of the Paulet Affair:

Ua Mau ke Ea o ka ʻĀina i ka Pono

"The Life of the Land is perpetuated in Righteousness"
I didn't wished to go this far in details but if you ask to...........

In this AU Belgium takes the place of USA (most of the following is Wiki sourced):
- "In November 1841 the partners (Ladd & CO.) negotiated a much larger deal with William Richards, a former missionary who was now a political advisor. The idea was to form a joint stock company to develop all unoccupied land in the kingdom. (....). Brinsmade traveled back to the United States trying to find investors. He could not get any takers. He then went to Britain, and then France. (.....). Finally they seemed to find a partner in Belgium: Brinsmade convinced the Belgian Colonization Company headed by King Leopold I of Belgium on May 16, 1843, to sign a contract. The agreement would transfer stock in Ladd & Co. to the Belgian investors in exchange for a badly needed infusion of cash."
- Because of The Paulet Affair the deal Beetween Ladd&Co. and Belgian Colonization Company was cancelled. With no incoming cash, the Honolulu Ladd & Co. had shut down in November 1844. So in this AU let's say Rear-Admiral Thomas never gaved permission to captain Paulet to investigate in Honululu.
- Ladd & Co. became one of the "Big Five" corporations dominating the Hawaiian economy in later decades.
- This led to an increassing belgian imigration.
- In 1866 King Leopold II of Belgium bought Ford Island at auction.
- In 1874 a Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security was signed between King Leopold II of Belgium and King David Kalakaua.
- In 1883 all import duties between Hawaii and Belgium are deleted
- In 1886 Belgian Navy gained the wright to build a Base on Louise Island (former Ford island).
Formally Hawaii never became a colony of Belgium, but a kind of protectorate.

According to the 1874 Treaty, Kingdom of Hawaii was allied to Belgium and Spain in the 1898 war against USA. By the terms of treaty of Paris Hawaii became a republic under a protectorate of the United states of America.
It was later annexed in 1914.
Author:  waritem [ September 16th, 2014, 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1898 “Marine Royale Belge/Koninklijke Belgische Marine”
I've updated the Baudoin with tropical color scheme.
Author:  TimothyC [ September 16th, 2014, 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1898 “Marine Royale Belge/Koninklijke Belgische Marine”
waritem wrote:
<Snip>
Well, that's less bad, but I think I'll bow out as I've said my piece.
Author:  waritem [ September 16th, 2014, 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 1898 “Marine Royale Belge/Koninklijke Belgische Marine”
I have improved a bit the story of Belgium in hawaii.
I wanted to comply with the true story in the end, but USA couldn't simply annex the kingdom immediatly in 1898.
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