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Thiel
Post subject: Re: Reworking North PointPosted: March 11th, 2013, 11:15 pm
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I suspect you're going to need a simple piston powered trainer of some sort for basic flight training. (You really don't want to let first time pilots loose in a $13 million plane) SOmething like the Saab Supporter or similar should do the trick. The airforce is probably also going to need a handful of utility helicopters.
One thing that stands out though is the almost complete lack of commonality between navy, air force and army aircraft. You're operating seven different types of helicopters. I'd take a look at the ToE of the entire armed forces and see what you could eliminate. For kinstance, you've got a Coast Guard who presumably operates rescue helicopters, so why does the air force need their own rescue service? (Or vice-versa)
Both the navy and the air force operates R-99s in the maritime patrol role. Why not consolidate all the airframes and thus training and maintenance into one service branch.
You've got Super Pumas so why have Sea Knights?
That sort of thing.

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Colosseum
Post subject: Re: Reworking North PointPosted: March 11th, 2013, 11:42 pm
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Yes, the problem is that all the pages are super out of date. ;)

Here's a list of changes I'd like to make:

Sea Command:
1. Move P-99s from Flying Corps (Air Force) to Sea Command (Navy).
2. Delete the Coast Guard and roll it into the Navy.
3. Move SAR aircraft from Flying Corps to navy.
4. Retain Fletcher/Gearing DDs in service after the war,
5. Replace wartime DDs with Charles F. Adams in the 1960s,
6. Replace CFA with MEKO variant in 1990s,
7. Procure 4x F100 (Alvaro de Bazan) in late 90s,
8. Procure 2x Arleigh Burke Flight III Level 2 in 2001,
9. Aerospatiale Alouette III and SH-2 Sea Sprite as North Point Sea Command shipboard helicopter,

Flying Corps:
1. Delete 737AEW&C (already handled by R-99A),
2. Move maritime patrol functions to Sea Command,
3. Move rescue functions to Sea Command,
4. Adopt some sort of small trainer aircraft (likely just Cessna 172).

Army:
1. Adopt G5 (South African) howitzer,
2. Adopt Leopard 1 in the 1990s and upgrade,
3. Adopt some sort of heavy truck for tank transport,
4. Field MBT units but only on the large central island,
5. Army aviation becomes Alouette III and Cougar/Caracal only for transport/utility,
6. Super Cobra as Army attack helicopter.

As I see it, this leaves only 4 helicopters in service: Alouette III (Army transport/utility, Navy shipboard helicopter), Cougar/Caracal (Army utility), Super Cobra (Army attack helicopter), and SH-2 (Navy shipboard helicopter).

Maritime patrol to be handled by the navy flying P-99s with a few P-3 Orions still in use.

Organizational changes:
1. Create North Point's version of NOAA,
2. National Weather Service as part of NP-NOAA,
3. WP-3D Orions to be operated as part of NWS,
4. Lighthouse Service as part of Sea Command,
5. Coast Watch to be deleted,
6. Sea Command to perform law enforcement work normally handled by Coast Guard.

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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Reworking North PointPosted: March 12th, 2013, 6:27 am
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In my scenario I use the Super Puma/Cougar family both for Navy,Air Force and Army,so perhaps North Point Sea Command could also use a navalised Super Puma/Cougar.It is similar in size with the Sikorsky S-70,which is in service with Real Hellenic Navy in its MEKO-200HN frigates.Also F-100 and Burke perhaps could use the Puma/Cougar.You will have only 3 helicopters in service then.

P.S This North Point seems more plausible than previous,I am looking foward to see posts.


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Thiel
Post subject: Re: Reworking North PointPosted: March 12th, 2013, 10:01 am
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Well, let's start with the Navy then. How many and what type MEKO are you looking at? I'd go for the MEKO 200. Exactly how depends on how many patrol units you've got to cover your other duties.
I'd delay the Arleigh Burke for a couple of years at least. By 2001 your navy will still be busy working out the kinks in the F100s. Throwing an even more complicated, albeit related, system before this process is over is just asking for trouble.
Speaking of the Burkes, you're presumably buying them to provide BMD. If that's the case then I'd do my level best to get a third so you can have one on station at all times.

As for patrol units, a lot is going to depend on how you operate them and if you want to use warships for some of the duties.
How are the ships deployed and what sort of shore side support do they have access to? Being able to stay at sea for months at a time is nice, but it's an expensive thing to buy and run and it doesn't make much sense if you're never more than a day or so from a harbour.

I like the Allouette III, but the design is really showing its age by now, even the upgraded ones being built by India, so your military should really be looking around for a replacement about now. This is even more true for the SeaSprite.
So you're in the market for a small/medium utility and naval helicopter. Personally I'm a fan of the H-60 series in whatever variant you might need. The Lynx Wildcat or the NH90 are also an option.

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Colosseum
Post subject: Re: Reworking North PointPosted: March 12th, 2013, 3:09 pm
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Yes, the nation has always been "plausible" re: equipment (especially compared to NS...), but none of the wiki pages are in sync - there are several different "evolutions" of North Point on the wiki at any one point in time, and that's just because I never have enough time to fully flesh everything out. At any rate - the basics of what I've outlined above have been floating around in my head for quite some time, I've just never had time to put it down on paper.

Re: Cougars as shipboard helicopters, I think this is doable, especially for the larger units - but for the smaller stuff, will probably stick with Alouette. Re: Alouette length of service, I think a country like North Point could pretty feasibly stretch their service life to 2015 (and obviously by now they'd be looking for a replacement, which I won't bother to model). I'm not a huge fan of the H-60 just because it's very :america: so would rather go with the Cougar.

I like the Sea Sprite, and from what I've read, it looks to me like NZ is still operating the SH-2G (Super Seasprite) which is I'm sure what North Point would be using. NZ took delivery of those helicopters in 2003 - to me, would make perfect sense as a replacement for aging Alouettes without having to get into the H-60s.

Have not given any thought to patrol units yet - I am pretty much starting over from scratch here and expect to delete most of what I already had. I imagine North Point has a few of the Sa'ar 4.5 boats and similar. I imagine the Burkes could be acquired around 2010-2011 timeframe. I have also not given much thought to the MEKO variant in service yet. Any ideas? Tim had mentioned the Argentinean variant as a good candidate.

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Colosseum
Post subject: Re: Reworking North PointPosted: March 12th, 2013, 6:10 pm
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http://statesmanship.co.uk/wiki/North_P ... n#Aircraft

Any comments on the tentative NPSC naval aviation?

I'm looking for advice on squadron numbers etc. I don't want to hear it about the PBYs.

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Rhade
Post subject: Re: Reworking North PointPosted: March 12th, 2013, 6:17 pm
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I will have one question about helo, you think about Bo 105 Colo ? Pretty good replacement for Alouette III.

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Colosseum
Post subject: Re: Reworking North PointPosted: March 12th, 2013, 6:45 pm
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Eh they've never really done anything for me so probably not.

That's another thing - it has to fit within my narrow-minded view of what kind of equipment is "cool". ;)

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odysseus1980
Post subject: Re: Reworking North PointPosted: March 13th, 2013, 6:30 am
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For Saar type OPV I have two very interesting variants to provide if you want,together with smalller PCs.I am not fond of the MEKOs,but the MEKO 140 is pretty good for a cost-effective corvette.In forum there are many AU variants to choose from,if you search.
Another choice for a corvette could be the Italian Minerva Class (in "Real Designs/Italy there are all 3 variants).

However,the problem with my Saar 4.5 OPV is that it use the Dauphine helicopter for SAR.

A good choice for squadron numbers is to use real RAF ones or if you like former US.


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Trojan
Post subject: Re: Reworking North PointPosted: March 13th, 2013, 6:32 pm
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The Sa'ar series from my understanding is more large fast attack craft/corvette than opv in equipment and role
I what recommend looking at maybe opv versions of the SIGMA or using something along the lines of the OPVs of the Australian and New Zealand navies whose names escape me
I would say u also should seriously consider some LAV type vehicles for the army
For aloutte 3 replacement maybe UH-1Y would be something you could consider
It may be not exactly in the same size class but it should be a good compliment to your fleet
Also for your army maybe some LAWS Carl Gustavs SPIKES and AT4S could be good compliments

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