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The SMSWorld
http://67.205.157.234/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=7026		 Page 5 of 19
Author:  Calis [ August 22nd, 2016, 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The SMSWorld
Colosseum, I just have to say that I love your ORBAT of the Fantasian Kriegsmarine, it has a very unique mix of ships that gives it the feel of coalition force. Well Done and very well thought out.
Author:  Thiel [ August 22nd, 2016, 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The SMSWorld
Well, the obvious thing that stands out is that you have a Bismarck still in service. Keeping the Iowas around was a pretty dubious idea and they were amongst the most modern ships in the world when they were launched and were first in line for upgrades during the war. The Bismarck on the other hand was a warmed over Bayern and about 20 years out of date by the time she was launched.
Author:  Redhorse [ August 22nd, 2016, 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The SMSWorld
It still took over 200 heavy caliber shell hits to sink her, and even that is still subject of debate.
Author:  eswube [ August 22nd, 2016, 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The SMSWorld
To be honest several things strike me in this OrBat.
One is the existence of single-ship squadrons (geschwadern) - mainly with capital ships but also with auxiliaries. For example USN has separately "administrative" squadrons of ships, and separately task groups (like carrier battle groups, for example). I guess that these carrier or battleship squadrons are meant to be equivalent of, for example, US CVBG's and escorts would be taken from the other squadrons "as needed"? But with auxiliaries IMHO it would be more practical to keep them together with the ships they are meant to support (like is - or at least was - the case in Bundesmarine, where each squadron of warships, besides the appropriate number of their "primary" vessels had it's "own" tender/AO/AOR/whatever...).
Also these 2-3 ship mine warfare squadrons look bit tiny to be really effective.
And in naval aviation it seems that You're using the word "geschwader" - which in "real world" describes air wing - for formations that are mere squadrons ("staffel") or even flights/detachments.
But overall very impressive. :)
Author:  Colosseum [ August 22nd, 2016, 10:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The SMSWorld
Well obviously the existence of a "modernized Bismarck" is to be taken with the same grain of salt as North Point's modernized Alaska... ;)

All very good points raised by eswube. My idea was that the FzTG (carrier squadron) would have the various ZG and FG (DesRon and FrigRons) attached as necessary - same with the TG (support ships). Though it may make more sense to consolidate these into coherent carrier groups.

I'm going to add more minesweepers to the various MsG. This also reminds me that I totally skipped the amphibious component of this navy...

I'm not too familiar with how the German words fit together, but my understanding was that Marinefliegerkommandos would have "squadrons" (geschwader) reporting to them. Is this not how the real-world Bundesmarine organizes itself? I just based the organization on the wiki article for the modern German navy.
Author:  eswube [ August 22nd, 2016, 10:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The SMSWorld
Bit confusingly, in the navy, the "geschwader" translates into english-language "squadron" (of several ships), but in aviation it translates into english-language "air wing" (of 2-4 squadrons - "staffel"/plural "staffeln", each with around dozen aircraft).
In case of German navy, both ship and aviation "geschwadern" are formations of "equal level" (roughly equivalent of land forces regiment and headed by captains - "Kapitän zur See").
That said, I guess that such FzTG as CVBG equivalent would be rather led by rear-admiral.
Author:  Colosseum [ August 22nd, 2016, 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The SMSWorld
OK, that makes sense to me now. So it's just a difference in translation. I'll update it accordingly.
Author:  Thiel [ August 23rd, 2016, 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The SMSWorld
Redhorse wrote:
It still took over 200 heavy caliber shell hits to sink her, and even that is still subject of debate.
And had she been designed to be an unsinkable raft that would have been really impressive. However while it took about two hours to sink her she was effectively out of the fight after 15 minutes when one salvo managed to take out her main battery, main gun director and the command staff.
Author:  Colosseum [ August 24th, 2016, 1:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The SMSWorld
I got bored and made one of the 2010 Akizuki derivatives in service with the Fantasian navy. I didn't bother with the railings and any other style concerns... this is the AU forum after all. I'm not even sure if the Akizuki design has VLS capable of launching Tomahawks, but well, there it is.

[ img ]
Author:  BB1987 [ August 24th, 2016, 8:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The SMSWorld
We need more camouflage on modern ships, even if it's just for the rule of cool.
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