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Karle94
Post subject: Re: Alternative Soviet Union & Warsaw PactPosted: April 2nd, 2012, 1:19 pm
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Carthaginian wrote:
Rhade wrote:
We have one good attack scenario in "Red Storm Rising", and sometimes you need just one missile to take out carrier from action.
Yes, there was a problem with the Phalanx targeting code that allowed a missile to damage the Nimitz there.

However, Nimitz was also back in service in a matter of weeks, and the scenario I spoke of- with precise raid warnings and 'attacks' on returning raiders ensued... though in the book Clancy went with the 007-style coordinated cluster munition via tomahawk raid.

The Soviets had a great weapon against the first few convoys to go through... but after raid warnings and retaliatory strikes, well, the Backfires were pretty easily beaten. That is what I was asking- would they have only been 'marginally successful'; and would Gollevainen's 'carrier vs carrier' AU not have been a better way?
It was demonstrated during WWII that carriers could suddenly and unexpectedly swing a battle around. Midway springs to mind. It actually started bad, but ended in total catastrophe from which the Japanese would never truly recover from. As for land planes vs carriers. A saturated attack against a fleet will definetly wear them down. Sending out many, many planes with even more missiles. Fire them all in a coordinated attack will owerwhelm enemy defenses, causing damage to said fleet.


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Colosseum
Post subject: Re: Alternative Soviet Union & Warsaw PactPosted: April 2nd, 2012, 3:58 pm
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I thought that Clancy was never, ever to be used as a reference in serious discussion.

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Portsmouth Bill
Post subject: Re: Alternative Soviet Union & Warsaw PactPosted: April 2nd, 2012, 5:44 pm
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Another aspect: any attack against a USN carrier task force would be a coordinated strike involving air, surface and submarine forces, with anti-ship missiles. It would be quite a grim scenario, with both sides counting off their assets as they became wasted. in the end the winner would be the one left with some reserve: the USN having just enough sams and fighters, and the Soviets having just enough missiles left to get through. The Soviet commander would have to sacrifice a lot of crew and ships/subs/aircraft to get a big fat carrier, but if they did............

What really made me sit up and smell the coffee about the Soviets was their tactic of having aft facing ssm's on their sacrifice frigates shadowing all USN task forces. Certainly, if the ballon went up these ships would soon get sunk, but they'd still send off an attack as they fled.

Now think PLAN ;)


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Hood
Post subject: Re: Alternative Soviet Union & Warsaw PactPosted: April 2nd, 2012, 7:29 pm
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This has to potential to be another great AU, and educational for all folks who want to do good AUs.
I'm loving the SSR flags too, the AU flags in there look real enough to be real!

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Gollevainen
Post subject: Re: Alternative Soviet Union & Warsaw PactPosted: April 2nd, 2012, 8:22 pm
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in effect this is the same AU scenario that I've beeing doing for these years, it just got some new clothes so I decided to promote it around with the new thread. And indeed, I expect nothing less from other AU scenarions;)

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Carthaginian
Post subject: Re: Alternative Soviet Union & Warsaw PactPosted: April 2nd, 2012, 8:47 pm
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Colosseum wrote:
I thought that Clancy was never, ever to be used as a reference in serious discussion.
Colosseum,
As someone who doesn't actively study naval strategy and as someone who doesn't have large sums of disposable income with which to purchase them or the time in which to read them... well, Clancy is my 'poor man's reference.' Yes, it is dramatized fiction, but it has factual basis.

History has proven the same thing that the fictional account Clancy wrote illustrates - swarm attacks- are a poor strategy in a protracted war. In the case of the Soviet missile attacks, there would be a powerful chance of early victory.

Could they, however, be sustained at a success rate which would win the war?
Karle94 wrote:
It was demonstrated during WWII that carriers could suddenly and unexpectedly swing a battle around. Midway springs to mind. It actually started bad, but ended in total catastrophe from which the Japanese would never truly recover from. As for land planes vs carriers. A saturated attack against a fleet will definitely wear them down. Sending out many, many planes with even more missiles. Fire them all in a coordinated attack will overwhelm enemy defenses, causing damage to said fleet.
Yes- but how many attacks can be successfully completed?

How long can the safe travel lanes for the Bears and Backfires be kept open? This would be a major factor in how long that the raiders could continue to be effective. IF the travel lanes remained open, then the swarm attacks could be maintained at full or near-full strength for longer periods of time. If they do not, then losses will quickly whittle down the numbers of available raiders, and this will lower the number of missiles thrown downrange each raid.

Can the Soviets, without long-range fighter support, manage to protect the returning raiders? There are only a certain number of practical routes that the aircraft can fly- dictated by fuel capacity, munitions weights, and target availability (which would be known by allied forces). Knowing the location of the possible bases from which the aircraft are deploying... well, you can determine the routes by the possible endpoints. Soviet planes were notoriously short-legged compared to Western counterparts; would that range shortfall lead to an air coverage gap that Western aircraft could exploit? Could the Backfires, or especially the Bears, be caught in that unsecured portion of their journey... low on fuel, with tired pilots and possibly preexisting damage?


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dreadnaught111
Post subject: Re: Alternative Soviet Union & Warsaw PactPosted: April 3rd, 2012, 12:56 am
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erik_t wrote:
My somewhat uninformed understanding holds that the Soviet Union was never terribly economically healthy post-WW2; Gorbachev certainly took actions that hastened its demise, but it wasn't an oops-life-was-grand-until-YOU-screwed-things-up sort of situation.
True, I read quite a bit on the Soviet Union and the Eastern Front, and it seemed as though Stalin didn't want a cold war. He was bluffing (atleast that's what the book I read was implying) in an attempt to force the U.S. to give him the economic aid and security he wanted. The USSR was simply too damaged from the Great Patriotic War to get involved into a long, drawn out conflict with the U.S. without several decades of peace first. Maybe if the cold war had been delayed, the USSR could've restructured its economy into a more sustainable form.

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Gollevainen
Post subject: Re: Alternative Soviet Union & Warsaw PactPosted: April 4th, 2012, 2:01 pm
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East Roman Empire 1453-1917

(History of the East Roman Empire until 1453 is been written in the previous AU thread and as it remains mainly unchanged, we can continue now to the years not yet covered.)

East Roman transformation to Eurasian superpower begun in the 11th century when Rome added Crimea and southern-bank of Black Sea to it's realm. Although these lands were later lost in the Mongol invasion, the foundation for the northern expansion were laid.

As the Ottoman power rose in the Anatolia, Roman emperors begun to strengthen their position in the Balkans and Walachia. This era was paramount under the reign of Emperor Ioan V successfully fought against the Hungarians and conquered Serbia as well as the Crimean Khanate which opened the doors to north, land of Rus were the orthodox faith reigned. Ioan V had a vision to unite the whole orthodoxian people under single rule in order to challenge not only the Muslims in the east but the catholic church in the west as well. This ideology carried on among his followers as well.

In 1453 the Ottomans are defeated and almost 150 years of peaceful co-existence in the south begun. In mean while East Rome under the rule of Tomas VII increased the power in the north and laid relations with the several Slavic princedoms, mainly with the powerful Moscow Grand Duchy. Tomas is however without an male heir and thus his stature in the Empire is being questioned. The Balegov dynasty is declining and Tomas sees his new northern allies as a key for continue the era of the Balegov's. Tomas's daughter Zoe is married with Ivan III, Grand Duke of Moscow.

Tomas VI is followed by his only son Andrei X in 1465 who is childless and weakening the power of the Balegov dynasty even further. Andrei continues the alliance with Moscow and helps defeating the Golden Horde in the “Great stand of Ugra”. After Andrei death in 1503, Vasili, son of Ivan III and Zoe has the strongest claim on the throne. Vasili becomes the new emperor in 1503 as Vasili III and Grand Duke of Moscow in 1505. Vasili III faces a difficult situation as there is a lot of distrust towards the new “foreign” emperor. Vasili III however manages to overcome the resistance and starts the process of merging Moscow into the empire. Vasili III consolidates the powers of both realm which are technically still two different realms. In the north, Vasili annexes the remaining princedoms and acquires Smolensk from Lithuania. In west the Empire manages to launch successful wars against the Kingdom of Hungary and effectively causing it's decline in the 1526.

Vasili III is followed by regency for Ivan IV, or Ivan The Terrible as popularly known in 1533. Ivan IV is crowned in 1547 as the “Tsar of all Slavs”. Ivan IV begun ruthless and and aggressive expansion into east and annexes Kazan and Astrakhan. Most prominent legacy of Ivan IV was however the “Oprichina” which transformed not only the moscowian laws and society towards Roman lines, but the whole empire towards more centralized and despotic rule.

After the death of Ivan IV, his mentally challenged son Feodor inherits the throne in 1584. Feodor is without an heir and dies in 1598. This launches an difficult period in the Empire's history. The so called “Times of Troubles” follows and saws the empire almost collapsing. As there is no legal heir, several pretenders rises and foreign powers seeks to profit on the misery of the empire. Ottomans attacks and captures the remains of Anatolia. The capital is in danger. Poland-Lithuania and attacks from the north and even captures Moscow for sort period. Novgorod is lost to Finland. Eventually a new powerful family, the Romanov's cedes power and manages to unite the empire against the foreign threats. New empire, Michael I Romanov is crowned in 1613. As the Ottomans are treating the capital, Michael I changes the capital to Moscow which becomes the “Third Rome”.

Trough out the next decades the Roman Empire started to heal from the effects of the Times of Troubles and under the lead of Michael I, manages to exploit the religious turmoil reigning in the west by conquering most of Hungary and Bosnia. In 1667 the Empire manages to defeat the Polish and acquires Smolensk back as well as Kiev. Western nations however are not happy over the increasing power of the Empire and thus in 1683 The Holy Roman Empire under Austrian lead together with the Ottomans and Poland-Lithuania attacks the East Roman Empire. The Eastern Empire is forced to cede Hungarian lands to Austria but by that manages to make a separate peace with Austria and HRE and thus being able to defeat the Turks and Poles.

Pavel VII raises to the throne in 1698 and makes confession to the Austrians in the Treaty of Karlowitz where East Rome gives up all claims for Hungary. Instead Pavel VII has an ambitions plan to modernize the empire and set the expansion route to east. Pavel attacks the Ottomans and manages to recapture the western Anatolia. The capital is returned to Constantinople. Pavel VII continues his predecessors plans to colonizing the Siberia together with the Finns. Pavel's modernization plans were commonly referred as “westernization” as Pavel was determined to introduce more dynamic and western influenced culture to the empire. He decreased the power of the orthodox church and issued reforms in the government, education and bureaucracy.

Pavel VII is followed by his daughter Elizabeth in 1741 and she was followed by series of coups which finally paved the way for Catherine II the Great. The empire grew considerably during the reign of Catherine II. Poland gradually ceded to exist and was partitioned between the Rome, Finland, Prussia and Austria. Also the decline of the Ottoman empire allowed the Empire to expand south in the Caucasus. The Catherine Era saw great devotion to enlightenment and increased the freedom of the nobles.

Catherine II was followed by Pavel VIII which reigned from 1796-1801. Alexander XI followed Pavel VIII. Changes in Europe emerged into the Eastern Empire as well. Alexander XI joins Austria and Great Britain against Napoleon's France but is defeated in 1807 and forced to become an ally to the French. The alliance ended in 1810 and in 1812 Napoleon attacks the Empire. French troops manages to come near Moscow but are defeated and driven back to Europe. Napoleon is finally defeated in 1815 and Alexander XI emerges as a triumphing savior of Europe. The following Congress of Wien consolidates the Empire's rule over Poland.

Meanwhile the Empire manages to get hold of former Dutch East Indian Trade Company's possessions in Asia and Sumatra is merged to the Empire. This launched a new era in the Empire's expansion policy. Alexander I is followed by Nikolai I in 1825, who had ambitious plans to join the colonization race to challenge the western powers. Nikolai I felt that due the fact that East Rome paid heavy deed on fighting against the Napoleon as well as contributing armies to the Holy Alliances to counter reforms and revolutions in Europe, the Empire was to be given free hands in expansion in the east. In 1828 East Rome launches yet another attack on the weakling Ottoman empire but this time instead of curving the Turks out from Anatolia, the Empire conquers Egypt and gains its first African colony. This new acquisitions of the East Roman Empire is considered worrisome in the west, especially among the British who had already drafted plans to build a navigable canal trough Suez in order to gain shorter sea route to the Indian Ocean.

East Rome begun to work on the canal project too and aggressively increasing its presence in Asia. In 1842 East Rome followed UK’s lead and attacks Qin dynasty in china in the First Opium war and conquered the province of Quanshi and Hainan. These further worried the British Empire as East Rome was steadily becoming the most important adversary for them in the colonial race. Before the war, East Rome wages war against the Kingdom of Ethiopia and forced it as the empires vassal and in effect a colony.

The aggressive expansion policy of Nikolai I brings a lot of fear and distrust to the Empire among foreign nations and in 1853 under the lead of Great Britain, Austria, France and the Ottomans declares war against the Empire. Out powered, the East Rome is forced to give up Egypt and some provinces in Anatolia to the Ottomans as well as Bosnia and Vojodvina to Austria. East Rome is also forced to give up the vassalization of Ethiopia.

Nikolai I dies in 1855 just before the harsh peace demands are inflicted to the Empire and Alexander II roses to the throne. Alexander II continues with Nikolai I footsteps but with less aggressive expansionism. His main focus is however in the internal issues and under his reign a great deal of reforms are carried out inside the Empire. He transforms the Empire in effect to be a constitutional monarchy. A new parliamentarian system is created in the form of Duma. The “alexandrian era” also sparked vast industrial growth in the Empire.

Alexander II era paves the way for the reformical and revolutionary ideologies inside the Empire but also returns the Empire into world leading superpowers. In the 1870's Italy and Germany is united and the European unity to counter East Roman expansionism was no longer cohesive. As France was defeated by Prussia and the newly formed German Empire was reluctant to go to war against any great powers, East Rome saw its opportunity and started a war against the Ottoman Empire in 1877. Only Great Britain joined the war but the Royal Navy is defeated in the battle of Navarin. In result East Rome re-establish its pre-1853 border with the Ottoman Empire as well as recaptured Egypt. The Empire also further increases its areas around central Asia and Caucasus.

Ironically the increase of civil liberties and reformist ideas led to the Emperor perish as he is killed by anarchists in 1885. Alexander III is followed by his father and started almost completely reverse internal policy which focus on restoring the autocratic powers of the Emperor. The Duma is eventually abolished and a lot of the reforms started in the Alexander II era are ended. Alexander III takes the panslavical ideas to the back bone of his foreign policy and sees the Austria-Hungarian empire as the main adverser, most of the slavic nations not yet under East Roman rule are under the Hasburgian rule. This naturally caused tension between the two empires for the decades to come.

Alexander III is followed by Nikolai II in 1894 who became the last Roman emperor. Nikolai II is generally considered as a weak ruler and he did little to improve the internal dissent caused by the harsh rule of his predecessor. Catastrophical defeat to Japan in 1905 when the Imperial Fleet is sent to help Finland launched series of rebellions and strikes which forced Nikolai II to re-establish the Duma but the revolutionary movement was not completely suppressed. Tension abroad, specially with the Austria-Hungarian Empire kept crowing and culminating in 1914 when panslavic terrorist kills the Hasbsburgian crown-prince. This leads Austria-Hungary to declare war on East Rome, followed by their allies Germany and the Ottoman Empire. France and Great Britain joins East Rome's side and World War I begins.

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bezobrazov
Post subject: Re: Alternative Soviet Union & Warsaw PactPosted: April 4th, 2012, 2:49 pm
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So Golly, what happens to the dynasty of the Palaeologi? Or the Cantacuzeni? Or the Lascardis or, for that matter, the Grand Comnenoi? And, seriously, I find it extremely implausible that the Rhomaioi would accept a Slavic, furthermore, eastern Slavic dynasty. Remember, the self consciousness and national sentiments of this people was unusually high and vivid, feed by the Greek-Orthodox church and Imperial iconography.I know it's your AU and so everything and anything goes, but the lack of a realistic footing in many of the current AU:s does bother me; are people not knowledgeable enough about their subject matters (which I like to believe you are), or?
In other words, I cannot buy your AU history as it stands, especially the "Drang nach Osten" that you describe, since there never was any conscious attempt or program to lay lands in the East under the Imperial Domain, other than what had been old Roman territory or might've belonged to any of the Successor states in the 4th to 1st centuries BCE.

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Gollevainen
Post subject: Re: Alternative Soviet Union & Warsaw PactPosted: April 4th, 2012, 3:02 pm
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Lord Sovereign Novgorod the Great - Lord Sovereign Turku - Principality of Turku – Principality of Finland and Karelia – Grand Principality of Finland, Karelia, Ingria, Estonia, Novgorod, Siberia and Far East

Finland between 850-1922


The history of Finland as a modern northern country begun to take form when the Scandinavian (though in Finnish historical writing they are often romanticize to have become from modern day Häme as part of Viking rulers set up to govern the locals around the city of Hämeenlinna) Varangians established the Rurikovich dynasty within Russia and the nation of Kievan Rus in 850. According to the legends, the finnic and Slavic tribes first united to abolish earlier varangian rulers, but then begun fighting each other’s and requested varangian named Rurik to rule upon them in the city of Holmengard, the predecessor to Novgorod/Uusilinna.

Rurik’s son Oleg, moved his capital to Kiev and established a Kievan Rus, a nation that united the Slavic tribes inhabiting the western Russian rivers and it expanded to the lands of other pagan nations and finally introduced Orthodox Christianity in 988 under the rule of Prince Vladimir. Kievan Rus entered its peak during the reign of Yaroslavl Wise, in 1019-1054 but after his reign, the nation begun to fall its integrity and several princedoms became more and less independent
And rivals over the Grand-Prince’s title.

The independence of Novgorod (or Uusilinna as called by the fins) begun in 1136 and contrary to the traditional princedoms, Novgorod was ruled by Veche (Käräjät in Finnish), an assembly of local population, and the actual “Prince” of Novgorod was usually just elected noble (often from other Kievan principalities) to lead the local army. Thus Novgorod was an early republic that prospered of its advanced position by controlling the trade from Russian lands via its long river routes down to Eastern Rome Empire and between the Baltic traders. Novgorod lies in the shores of Lake Ilmen, close to the upper runs of Volga and Western Dvina and connected via river Volkhov (Olhava) to Lake Ladoga (Laatokka) and to Gulf of Finland. This location ensured Novgorod’s position as the leading trade center in medieval Eastern Europe.

Culturally Novgorod enjoyed multi-ethnical background being inhabited by Slavic tribes of distinguished local culture as well as finnic Votian, Vepsiän and Karelian tribes, together with merchants from Germanic and Scandinavian origins. The republic ruled vast hinterlands east and north of the actual Novgorod city, mostly inhabited by Finnic people. The contest over Finland proper against Sweden has accounted to start as early as 1146 culminating in the Victory on the Battle of Neva River 1240 when the Prince Alexander later St. Alexander or Alexander of Neva “Nevsky” or “Nevalainen” defeated the Swedish invaders. Two years later in 1242 Alexander lead Novgorodian troops into another victory against the German knighthoods in the ice of Lake Peipus.

Alexander’s reign took place during the Mongol invasion of Kievan Rus lands, and Novgorod, despite saved from full invasion of the Tartars, and had to pay tribute to the khanates. During the 14th century Novgorod prospered while its southern neighbors struggled under the Mongol yoke. In 1323 In the treaty of Nöteborg (Pähkinäsaari) marked the end of Swedish incursions into Finland and Established Novgorodian rule over the Finnish proper, marking the rise of the city of Turku (Torgi in Russian) as the main trading port of the Republic and its westernmost guard. It took still for almost centuries before the Orthodox Christianity was firmly established upon the Pagan finnic tribes.

When the Mongol Khanates declining begun, and the Principality of Moscow as well as Polish-Lithuania begun to rise in power absorbing the lands formerly held by the Tartars, Novgorod’s foreign policy begun to turn increasingly meddled with affairs of neighboring principalities. By 1456 Novgorod had weakened to suffer devastating defeat to Moscow that made the Republic de facto vassal of the Muscovites.
This lead into even more increasing intrigue establishments by the Novgorodians that lead first into a failed alliance with Polish-Lithuania and Followed by brutal Muscovite invasion, that cumulated into Battle of River Shelon in 1471 where Moscow’s forces defeated the Novgorodian army.

Novgorod was to fall under total Moscowian annexation, if it wasn’t for the Roman emperor Andrei X being too worried of the rise of Ivan III’s Moscow as rivaling power to its own ambitions over Russian land. Under the Roman influence, the Treaty of Starskaya Rusa in 1478 leads annexation of the city of Novgorod and its southernmost provinces to the bourgeoning principality of Moscow, while leaving the northern lands, around Lake Ladoga and Finland to form a rump state under Constantinopolitan influence and rather questionable protection.

Most important in this decision was the creation of independent Orthodox metropolitan as an autocephalous Church, headed in the city of Turku that now became the capital and location of the Veche (in the Cathedral of St. Alexandra that served as this purpose). This diversion was sort of counter action against the Declaration of the Russian metropolitan in Moscow as Patriarchate without Constantinopolitan consent. Prince Thomas Balegov (Tuomas Roomalainen by finnic tradition) from lesser house of the Imperial dynasty was selected as first Prince by the Turku’s veche, strengthening the image of Roman hospitality and friendship among Finnish nobility and traders whom would have great deal of importance in the future history of the nation.

The later 15th century was time of troubles for the Republic of Turku as it now generally known (or as Herra yliherra Turku; Lord Sovereign Turku, analog to the old name of Lord Sovereign Novgorod Great, with the distinguish distinction of lacking the “great” suffix.) The new republic continued its trade with Hansa while still prosperous with Nordic goods of fur and beeswax, salt and fishes but the lost of access to the rich Russian trade seriously defected the prosperity of the new republic. There were numerous accounts of Moscowian and Pskovian clashes with Turku’s troops and the Castle of Nöteborg (Pähkinälinna) in Lake Ladoga was sieged three times in 1482-1490

The rivalry from Sweden that had endured in the previous centuries did not emerge in strength as Sweden was tangled with Scandinavian Power struggles within the Kalmar union. In 1495 however, the Moscowian Prince Ivan III allied with Hans of Denmark who was also contenting for the throne of Sweden. This led to an alliance whit Swedish Nobles of the house of Sture to ally with Thomas II a son of Thomas Balegov that was selected as a prince of Turku despite his young age and obvious mental illnesses which referred him as the “mad prince” by the chronicles. This lead to Moscowian invasion to Finland that was rebelled and lead into ceding of hostilities soon as Hans had been crowned as king of Sweden as well.

In 1503 after the death of Andrei X, the last Balegov Emperor in Constantinople, Ivan III’s son, Vasili III rose as emperor of Rome as well as Grand Duke of Moscow. In order to avoid the obviously mad prince Thomas II of Turku not contenting for the Imperial throne, he was assassinated while in bed in March of 1504 and the Veche begun policy of selecting new Princes from local nobility for the next two decades. In 1510 When Vasili III threatened the independency of Pskov Republic, Turku who was allied with Pskov as well as Livonian Order resulted Pskovians to elect the Prince of Turku, Matti as their prince as well for protection, This was not liked by the local boyarins and after series of incidents, Prince Matti collected large army to Iivananlinna (Ivanogorod) in Ingria and threatening to Siege the city of Pskov ended the rebellion and incorporating Pskov under Turku’s rule.

In 1521 Sweden elected Gustav Vasa as their new king and Ivan IV follows the throne as Emperor of Rome and Grand Prince of Muscow in 1533. In Turku under the rule of Prince Nicholas (Niklas) Wuori, the principality began its transition into Despotic Monarchy by first abolishing the Veche’s right to select Princes in 1537 when a new “secret veche” was formed including only loyal boyarins and the Metropolitan to select the Princes of Turku. In subsequent meeting in 1539, Aleksander (Aleksi) 4 year old son of Nicholas was selected as “heir apparent” thus establishing a dynasty as well as sealing Nicholas reign to last lifetime.

Under Nicholas’ reign, the Principality of Turku begun strengthen its position among the Baltic Trade by securing its eastern front with East-Rome who was absorbing the Moscow principality into its control, in a treaty of Novgorod in 1541 that resulted into a long truce and peace with in the two nations and Strengthened Turku’s position as independent Principality from the Imperial throne. During the reign of Nicholas, the title Prince of Finland and Karelia became to be used more, and not only did the principality strengthen its eastern Possessions by Establishing Monastery and fort in Solokka Island in White Sea and forming the city of Archangelsk in the mouth of Northern Dvina River, but also begun to look to the west and into the trembling Livonia.

Old wars that Livonia and the old Republic had waged were usually avoided by renewing the peace treaties periodically. In 1554 however, Nicholas begun demanding Bishopric of Dorpat to pay religious taxes, which the Bishopric refused thus leading the situation into series of prolonged negotiations. In 1557 after brief Livonian civil war, the Order and Polish kingdom made a anti-finnic defense treaty which Nicholas saw as a breaching the 1554 treaty. This led to a Finnish army invading the Livonia and after successful campaign, it occupied the eastern Livonia and the Bishopric of Dorpat, but under fear of Swedish and Denmark taking advantage of the situation, Prince Nicholas accepted Danish meditation which left the situation somewhat open, continuing the Finnish partial occupations without further concessions.

This truce lasted until 1559 during which Denmark and Poland had managed to gain considerable foothold in Livonia and aided by these nations, Livonian Order attacked against Finnish forces. Finnish forces defeated the Livonian troops, and instead of direct military aid, both Denmark and Poland begun to extort more gains from the weakened order for monetary support. After the truce of 1561, a partitioning of the rest of the Order followed by Denmark, Poland and Sweden. Nicholas died in 1562 and his son Alexander followed to the throne establishing his power as “divine” by conducting his coronation in Constantinople itself. Alexander continued his father’s policies in regards of gaining the Baltic land and in 1570 He initiated the 25 year war over the Baltic’s that would eventually end into Finnish defeat and Swedish triumph over the remaining of Livonia.

Although the war started with initial Finnish success and by 1577 all of the Baltic aside the city of Tallinn was under Finnish occupation. But under strong Swedish and Polish counterattacks that reached as far as Pskov, the war tide eventually turned against the Fins and the exhausted and mercenary build armies were vanquished and Alexander accepted peace in 1583, ceding all his father’s acquisitions to Sweden as well as loosing the province of Ingria, which cut out the Pskov from the Finnish proper. This lead into a series of interim peace that lasted until 1590

After the humiliating defeat in the west, Alexander turned to east, where the Finnish settlements in Ural Mountains had become odds with the Siberian Khanate, together suffering the same problems as did the expanding Roman Empire. Led by a Moscowian Cossack, Yermak, a small Finnish expedition fought against the Sibir-Khanate between 1582 and 1598. This marked the beginning of Finnish expansion to the east that was driving fundamental to the Princedom for the next century to come.

The peace in the west broke in 1590 when a Finnish regent Iivari Hämäläinen for Prince Nicholas II Decided to take revenge against the Swedish in the Baltic. After initial success in Capturing Ingria and Estonia, the war dragged on for almost 8 years culminating in various guerrilla raids in the Northern wilderness that connected Sweden and Finland. A peace treaty was signed in 1595 returning Ingria to Finnish possession.

In 1598 after Finnish Conquest of the city of Qashling, the capital of Sibir Khanate, the relationship between East Rome and Finland deteriorated from the dispute of diving the Khanate’s lands and lead for short war where Romans invaded the Qashling and burned the city down. In peace treaty Finland lost the city as well as all the Khanate holdings around river Irtysh to Rome. In counter move, Finland begun to build fort on the River Ob, in Kalakuoppa, that would became the dominant outpost for the Asian side of Finland in the following centuries.

As Rome entered into another set of succession crises, the newly ingratiated Prince Nicholas II saw his moment when Roman regent Boris Godunov died in 1605 and false pretenders to the imperial crown appeared from Polish-Lithuania. Finnish army invaded Novgorod and Belozero and advanced to siege city of Tver as well as Yaroslav and Vladimir. Together with Polish invasion, Rome was forced to cede back the lands Ivan III had conquered almost one and half century ago and Novgorod was once again under its rightful rule. Nicholas II was proclaimed as Saint by the Finnish metropolitan, but not canonized by the Constantinople. He also proclaim Finland now as “Grand Duchy of Finland, Karelia, Ingria and Novgorod” and himself as Grand Prince.

In 1610 Swedish King Gustav II Adolph launches a new attack against Finland who by the treaty was bound to assist the struggling Rome against its Polish invaders. The resulting war leads the greatly exhausted Principality into another defeat and the following peace treaty of Stolbovo in 1617 deprives Finland once again its Ingrian possessions, as well as the old principality of Pskov.

After the Treaty of Stolbovo, the Finnish enthusiasm in Baltic is laid back for decades. By the 1640’s, Finnish expeditions have reached the Pacific ocean in the east, and net of small trading and hunting forts and outpost have been sprung among the vast Siberian lands and great rivers that reaches the Arctic Sea. The town of Ohotta becomes the first Finnish port in the Pacific Ocean in 1647.

In 1656 Finland joins in an inconclusive attack against Sweden during another Roman-Polish war, and despite some success, Finnish troops once again are overstretched across the Baltic States and defeated around Daugavpils and Riga. The subsequent peace treaty only allows the fort of Nöteborg in the Entrance of Lake Ladoga back in Finnish hands, greatly helping the magistration between Turku and Novgorod. During these times, the Cities of Äänislinna and Archangelsk begun to flourish as main routes to the lucrative eastern trade from Siberian holdings.

In 1689, Finland, East Rome and the Manchu empire down in the far reaches of Asia agreed a peace treaty of Nerchinsk to end the ongoing border skirmishes around the River Amur. During the same treaty the Finnish Principality (this time under regent for Peter I) and Rome agreed over their border in the Asia that has remained intact ever sense.

When Peter I rose into full sovereignty for the throne, he begun active campaign to end the Swedish hegemony in the Baltics and establish Finland as the dominant Baltic power. Together with Saxony and Denmark, Peter I attacked Sweden then under the reign of Charles XII in 1700. The resulting Great Northern War reigned over 20 years, seeing success switching first on Swedish favor, but eventually leading together With Roman incursion for a Finnish victory that ceded all of the Swedish Baltics into Finnish Possession in the treaty of Uusikaupunki in 1721. The war also saw the naval victory in the Battle of Hango in 1714 that marked as first success of the modernized Finnish navy under strongly naval minded Peter.

Finland was greatly modernized under the rule of Peter, it among other things introduced new military drafting system modeled after Swedish system, improved taxation, Latin lettering and proclaiming the Metropolis of Finland as the Patriarchy together with Roman Emperor Paul (Pavel) VII which included in the holy treaty of Samoyeds (in the small fort and monastery of Samojeds in the Far northern Nenetsnenia) that ratified the Finno-Roman alliance that has been basically intact for modern times as well as divided most of Eastern and Northern Eurasia into respective Spheres of Influence and confirmed the Finnish Grand Prince as a sovereign ruler over his land, tough nominally under the rule of the Emperor.

After Peter I The Great, the Grand Prince title was held as Peter II (1721-1729) and Alexander III (1729-1749).
In 1741 Sweden Invaded Finnish Baltics, as well As landing to Pohjanmaa across the Sea of Botnic in hopes to invade Turku. Finnish Forces under the leadership of Peter Lacy (Pietari Lassi) managed to rebel the Swedish invaders and the War ended up in retaining the Treaty of Uusikaupunki intact. During the war, the Royal family and the Principal government was located in Novgorod.

Under the alliance with Roman Empire, Finland participated in the War of Austrian succession 1740-1748 and the Seven year war 1756-1763 leading into no new acquisitions for Finnish domain.
In 1788 Sweden once again Tried to invade Finnish Baltic and in following war, a set of Naval battles, including the first and second battles of Ruotsinsalmi (Svenskuns) of wich the first was great Finnish success and later a humiliating defeat that eventually pursued the Finnish Grand Prince Nicholas V to sign peace with Sweden for no gains of land in 1790. In 1793 Finland aided Roma in its war against Poland that saw large areas of eastern Poland given to Rome.

In 1794 another partitioning of Poland took place after failed polish insurgency which saw the Kurland and Lithuania ceded to Finland according to an agreement with Rome. Finland participated in the Napoleonic wars generally following the Roman lead and in engaging Sweden in the 1808-1809 Åland war, that was to become last war between Finland and Scandinavian nations before 2nd World War. In the war, Finnish strategies were originally capturing all of Sweden and enforce Sweden to join the Continental Agreement. The war culminated in capture of Åland archipelago that had been part of Sweden since Viking days and during the winter of 1808 Finnish forces crossed the sea of Åland via the ice and pillaged Stockholm.

During Napoleons invasion of East Rome in 1812, some Finnish regiments fought together with the Romans in the Battle of Poltosk. But generally Finnish participation after the Finnish war was diminutive for the final campaigns.

The following decades brought peace to Finland in the West that was only disturbed by English naval operations in the Baltic during the Egyptian war in 1853-56. The war ended in the treaty of Paris, which included demilitarization of the Åland islands in the Baltic among one of it terms.

In the second opium war in 1856, the Finnish Governor of Far East, Niklas Muraja forced the Ming Empire to sign the treaty of Aigun that established the river Amur as the border between Finland and China. This treaty was source of great disparity between Chinese rulers thereafter, but it also reached the Finnish Grand Principality to reach its highest reach before the 1945. Niklas Muraja founded the city of Haaparanta and was give right to call himself “Amurilainen” and became a sort of sub-national hero of the Finnish Far East.

During this expansionist era, Finland also established its rule over the Island of Sakhalin and discovered Kurills. The Grand Prince Mathew (Matti) was determined to establish Finnish supremacy over the “Barbarians” of the east (Japan and Ming) and lot of effort was put on the Far eastern establishment during his and his successors reign.
Together with Finnish adventurists Eufemia Putjalainen and Niklas Ignatius, diplomats operating in Peking in 1858-60 during the western occupation made favorable deals for even more concessions to the Finnish realm from the trembling empire.

Mathew is followed by Mathew II (1869-1910) and Michael III (1910-1918) ending the Wuori dynasty that was one of the longest ruling dynasty with direct male line in Europe.

During Mathew II’s rule Finland begins its slow industrialization and conducts the 2nd Siberian railway, reaching trough the northern lands cross Ural from Archangelsk to Kalakuoppa and further over the great rivers of Ob, Tunguska and Lena to Yakutsk (Jakuutti) and finally down to the port of Idänlinna at the Amur bank in outer Manchuria. After the Sino-Japanese war 1895, Finland is the main culprit of the triple-alliance, a loose coalition of England, Finland and France to force Japan to cede its concessions back to China and giving the Port of Lünshun (Port Arthur) into Finnish control. This embarks Finland to seek first time status as major naval power, and series of small cruisers, gunboats and Coastal armored ship were build and send to far east to defend the newly acquired possessions. Finnish hopes lied in ultimately to cede control of whole Manchuria, which de-facto became Finnish sphere of interests and was occupied by Finnish forces after the boxer rebellion of 1900. Finland begun construct a railway from its own Siberian rail-way across Manchuria to Port Arthur and thousands of Finnish soldiers protected this railroad inside the Chinese borders.

This policy brought Finland terminate odds with the emerging Japanese empire, which was establishing its own colonial powers in China and Korea and had embarked a truly world class fleet to threaten Roman naval presence in China. As Finland was seen by the Japanese as inferior naval power and generally more backward nation without proper means to protect it possessions and as a Roman proxy, Japanese forces attacked Finnish Port of Port Arthur in China 1904 The resulting Naval siege and land attacks from Japanese Korea to Manchuria proved devastating and the Grand Prince Mathew II gathered all of the forces he could muster from Europe to Asia, including pledging help from Rome according to the “Holy alliance” dating of Peter the Great. The Eastern Roman fleet was send from Mediterranean to Asia, but it met the Japanese fleet in Tsushima straits and suffered devastating defeat.

After these defeats, Finland was forced to enter negotiations and the Treaty of Portsmouth in 1905 gave Port Arthur to Japanese as well as the Kuriles and half of the Island of Sakhalin. Further Finland was forced to move its troops away from Manchuria and acknowledge the Japanese hegemony over Korean peninsula.

After the war, many social unrests together with general dissatisfaction to the stagnate rule of Mathew II resulted in series of strikes and revolts that were crushed ruthlessly and igniting increased revolutionary movement across the nation. Also the “Veche” or Käräjät were established first time since the 15th century as popular assembly, but its powers were kept strictly in the hands of the monarch.

Mathew II’s only son Nicholas died in 1909 at age of 29 from hunting accident and the old Grand Prince who was severally depressed after the disastrous war fell into series of illness and died in 1910. Nicholas’ 5 year old son Michael followed to the throne while Minister J.K Paasikivi was made as prince-regent and de facto last ruler of the Grand Principality of Finland.

As per its alliance with Rome, Finland declared war upon Austria-Hungary in 1914 following the Roman lead. Finnish army, eager to erase the humiliation of the Far East engaged in invasion of East Prussia that only lead in another humiliating defeat in Tanneberg in August. The series of German attacks drove the frontline to Riga where Finnish troops managed to dug in and halt the invasion. The war proved that the Finnish army was severely inferior to the German troops both in numbers and quality, and the Regent government embarked strict conscription that mobilized almost all eligible male population of European Finland to resist the German advances. Also, Japanese entrance into Entente’s side allowed the large Far East Army to be moved to Europe.

These policies eventually made Finnish economy to collapse, and resulted small famine among the northern regions. The revolutionary movement was gaining stronger and stronger ground and in 1917, series of strikes equaling the 1905 movement in size halted the economy even more. The resulting parliamentary elections gave Finland first a socialist majority in summer of 1917, but subsequently the Regent Paasikivi disembarked the parliament and new, more conservative government was selected in what the later history writing describes as “fixed” elections. This lead into rapid radicalization among the ranks of the Finnish Social Democratic Party, similar in fashion of the Roman Bolsheviks.

In January the 1918 The Social democrat’s radicals initiated a revolution in Turku. The Grand Prince and his regent cabinet fled first to Vaasa in Gulf of Botnia and then to Novgorod, while pulling troops out from Baltic’s to suppress the rebellions. Unfortunately for the Regent, most of the army was already rebellious itself, siding effectively with the red guards back home and most of the Army disintegrated during the winter of 1917-1918 Pushing the Central Powers into their final offensive to force both Finland and the similarly revolted Rome out from the war. The Finnish People’s Deputy, the revolutionary government under leadership of Kullervo Manner signed the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk that allowed Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia to gain independency (Germans guaranteeing these nations). The emerging civil war lasted in Finland until 1922.
The Grand Prince was captured in Novgorod in 1919, while England, USA, and France and Japan send intervention forces that Operated from Baltic States and landed in Murmansk/Archangelsk as well as capturing most of the Far-east by Japanese forces.

Most of the “White” Finnish forces are defeated in summer of 1919, and the incursion of foreign forces, together with the separatist movements in Baltic, Åland and full occupation of Far East contributes lot of the nationalist sentiment to side with the Reds and establishing the Finnish People’s army that managed to drive away the half-hearted interventionists and Occupy Baltic States. The Baltic campaign didn’t succeed however, beyond Estonia, as Polish and German volunteers allowed Lithuania retain its independency and in the Treaty of Dorpat (Tartu) hostilities ends between Finland and the new nations of Poland and Lithuania.

In Far East, the Reds declared the “Republic of Far East” as an interim government between the Japanese and Red Finland. This establishment was however dismantled in 1922 when Finnish troops regained the Far Eastern Provinces and erasing various separatists, interventionist and Chinese warlords that have entered the area. Last operation as to regain the Sovereignty of the old Principality took place in 1925 when Finnish Gunboat was dispatched to the Wrangell Islands to drive away 13 American merchants that were exploiting the island in hopes to claim to Canadian rule. The Grand Prince Michael III was allowed to have asylum first at Sweden in 1919 (from where he moved to London in 1921 where he lived rest of his life to his death at age of 84 in 1989 He had two sons and four grandsons, and the emigrates hold the Michael IV, born in 1927 as the rightful claimant to the Grand Prince’s throne, tough already in venerable age of 85 at 2012. Finnish Democratic Republic has over gone series of negotiations with the Royal Family to officially abdicate since 1995.)

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Shipbucket mainsite, aka "The Archive"
New AU project "Aravala"


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