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Hood
Post subject: Re: Fisherless Royal NavyPosted: May 19th, 2015, 7:51 am
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But you've got the added utility of having AEW (though the Gannet would be in bad need of replacement by then and since they were sacrificed to provide the Shackelton AEW force with radars they might not exist anyway or perhaps a replacement was brought?
You have F-4s, not so good at dogfighting as the Sea Harrier but you can make full use of the Sparrows and you have more time on CAP. Also a dozen Buccs might have been a deterrent too, no need for the Black Buck missions to pound Port Stanley airfield and you can put much more ordnance down more accurately and you have Martel for anti-ship use. It also opens the doors to diplomatic blackmail to strike the mainland, maybe even preemptive strikes against the Argentine carrier in port? Perhaps even threats of having some WE.177 aboard too (we know about the Polaris threat now)?
Countering that, the Argentines would send their subs to intercept the carriers as the priority target.

I doubt you could send both, depending on other carrier assets in this AU, one might be tied up in NATO ops or in refit or something. Even one with, say, Hermes would be a powerful enough force.

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rifleman2
Post subject: Re: Fisherless Royal NavyPosted: May 19th, 2015, 9:40 am
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What Light carriers would have been built? I would like to hope we would have built and retained the Albion/Hermes class


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Krakatoa
Post subject: Re: Fisherless Royal NavyPosted: May 19th, 2015, 12:24 pm
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10 x Unicorn (read Majestic class as well) - They were replaced by the Hermes class production which were laid down in 1943 and all completed post war.

I do keep the light carrier program. The UK did very well out of sales of the light carriers to foreign buyers. Because they were completed post-WW2 I don't include drawings of them here in this thread.

I was thinking that the Gannets could be replaced with 3-4 Trackers.

That could give a possible aircraft complement of:
2 squadrons Phantoms
1 squadron Buccaneers
1 squadron Harriers (could be catapult launched or enough run down the angled deck without need of the ramp)
4 Trackers
6 Sea King
total of 58 aircraft out of possible 60-65


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Progress
Post subject: Re: Fisherless Royal NavyPosted: May 19th, 2015, 1:08 pm
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Krakatoa wrote:
1 squadron Harriers (could be catapult launched or enough run down the angled deck without need of the ramp)
I know that is an AU... but I doubt that a Harrier could be catapult launched...

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rifleman2
Post subject: Re: Fisherless Royal NavyPosted: May 19th, 2015, 9:16 pm
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my thoughts on the hermes class were half built as batch one converted to helecopter/commando carriers the updated batch remained as light carrriers with buccaneers and sea harriers


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Krakatoa
Post subject: Re: Fisherless Royal NavyPosted: May 20th, 2015, 2:33 am
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Of 4 Hermes class, I would keep Bulwark/Albion as the Commando Carriers and the Hermes/Centaur as ASW/CAP carriers with Sea Kings and Harriers (with ramp).

That way if you have a Falkands scenario you could have Bulwark/Albion as the assault ships with choppers, and then a mix of Hermes and Indefatigable (Malta) class, any 3 of 4.


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rifleman2
Post subject: Re: Fisherless Royal NavyPosted: May 20th, 2015, 4:02 pm
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there were more planned I think it was 8, polythemus, monmoth, arrognt and elephant were the others of the top of my head


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Krakatoa
Post subject: Re: Fisherless Royal NavyPosted: May 22nd, 2015, 3:06 am
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The Colony class cruisers were laid down in 1940 with completion expected late 1942, early 1943. However with the 1941 steel shortage and higher priorities placed in front of them, the first two did not complete till mid 1943. HMNZS New Zealand was the fourth completed in September 1943 and after trials and commissioning, joined the fleet in November 1943. A total of 14 had been laid down by the end of 1942. The last four were placed on a go slow and were completed post war to a different design. The last two, completed during the war, were for Canada and entered service in late 1944.

The design was based on the Sirius and earlier Town class cruisers. The Sirius class it had been decided was too big for mass production, but some of its design features were carried forward. A ship the size of the Town class with the same three triple turret arrangement was chosen. The hull was enlarged to allow space for bigger magazines for both the main and secondary armaments. A new mark of 6" gun with the ability to fire up to 50% faster was to be fitted. The dual purpose armament was to keep the same numbers as the Towns but the size was increased from the earlier 4" twins to the new automatic mark V 4.5". These weapons were tied to a new director system of which 5 were fitted so that the turrets could be individually controlled or centralised control for barrage firing. The new 40mm STAAG mountings were to make up the light AA with its much better knockdown capability with the onboard radar.

Various changes in equipment were made during the building of the ships. The electronic suite was added to almost on a monthly basis. The normal tripod masts of the earlier classes were replaced with the new lattice mast that had the ability to carry a lot more of the electronics. New bridge superstructures being fitted to allow the new directors to be fitted.

[ img ]

The New Zealands first war cruise was to be a rude awakening for the new ship. Ordered to join the Arctic convoy JW55B as the close cruiser escort, its new radar picked up the blip of an incoming large unit. The new radar aboard the eNZed (slang name) allowed the Scharnhorst to be spotted before coming in range of its own radar range. The eNZed radioed the contact to Admirals Fraser and Burnett and ordered the convoy away from the Scharnhorsts track. ENZed was joined by Admiral Burnetts cruisers and intercepted the Scharnhorst at approximately 9.00am with both sides exchanging fire. It was during this first part of the Battle of the North Cape that the Scharnhorst was hit with a crippling blow. An 8" shell from HMS Norfolk hit the Scharnhorsts main radar array atop the bridge superstructure. This left the Scharnhorst almost blind in severe weather conditions with sleet and snow blowing through the battle area. The Scharnhorst turned away and lost the cruisers in the heavy seas. The cruisers being unable to keep up the pace set by the much bigger Scharnhorst. Setting his cruisers between the convoy and where the Scharnhorst was expected from the eNZed again proved useful with its radar picking up the Scharnhorst and passing the information on. The cruisers again engaged the Scharnhorst. The Scharnhorst without its radar was forced to fire at the flashes of the enemies guns. The three 6" cruisers had the new flashless powder so the only ship it could 'see' was the Norfolk. The Norfolk took damage in this phase of the action with its radar being knocked out and the after turrets being put out of action. While the 6" cruisers hit the Scharnhorst numerous times, little damage was done. What was happening in the background was Admiral Fraser aboard the Duke Of York was cutting all the corners he could to close the action and bring his big guns to bear. At 4.15pm with the Scharnhorst running south for home the Duke of York came within range. The Scharnhorsts end was in sight. With large shell hits and torpedo hits from the destroyers, Scharnhorst was sunk. Of her total complement of 1,968, only 36 were pulled from the frigid waters.

If people have noticed the pennant number on the ship, if you google the number you will find it belongs to the yacht that won the Americas Cup for New Zealand, NZL32.


Last edited by Krakatoa on April 27th, 2016, 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Hood
Post subject: Re: Fisherless Royal NavyPosted: May 22nd, 2015, 7:49 am
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I'm liking the Colony very much too.

Are you using the Mk25 DP 6in or is this just an improved AU model?

Two minor improvements I would make are: one only need one Type 960 aerial and I reckon three Mk VI directors would suffice to direct the 4.5in. The Mk VI was a big and heavy beast and topweight might suffer, let alone the cost and production delays.

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Krakatoa
Post subject: Re: Fisherless Royal NavyPosted: May 22nd, 2015, 8:10 am
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I have made the changes suggested by Hood.

I was trying to get a weapon between the MkXXIII and the full auto MkXXVI of the Tiger type. That turret is nicely different from both. I did not want it to be full auto and/or dual purpose. 45-50 degree elevation is enough for surface fire and maximum range. I want to have a technology step between the above guns.


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